Loading...
02 19 1992 Public Minutes 7:15 , r . t .. THE CORPORATION OF THE TOWNSHIP 01' ORO 8PECIAL PUBLIC KBBTING WEDNESDAY. I'EBRUARY 19.1992 , 7:15 P.M. - COUNCIL CHAKBBR8 EIGHTEBNH MEETING 1991-1994 COUNCIL The following members of Council were present: Reeve Robert E. Drury Deputy Reeve David Caldwell Councillor Alastair Crawford Councillor Joanne Crokam councillor Leonard Mortson Also Present Were: Mr. Robert Quinn, Mr. Alan Wayne, Mr. Conrad Boffo, Mr. Allan Johnson, Mr. Bill Frampton, Mr. Bernal Johnston, Mr. Bryan Johnston, Ms. Vera Clark, Mr. Murray Clark, Mr. Alex McInroy, Mr. Glen stewart, Ms. Heather Ms. Shirley Woodrow, Mr. Garth Daniels, Mr. Bill Pidlysny, W. A. Martin, Mr. Albert Anderson, Mr. Nelson Robertson, Mr. Jack Scott, Mr. Jim Langman, Mr. Earl Robertson, Neas, Ms. Verna Smith, N. J. Euneo, Mr. G. King, Ellen King, Ms. Lynn Murray, Ms. Joanne Garside, Mr. Jack Anderson, Mr. David Anderson and Two Members of the Press. Reeve Robert E. Drury chaired the meeting. Reeve Robert E. Drury opened the meeting by explaining to those present that this Public Meeting was to receive public comments respect to a proposed Official Plan and zoning By-Law Amendments, under Sections 17 and 34 of the Planning Act, 1983. The applicant has applied to redesignate and rezone certain lands described as Part Lots 8, 9 and 10, Concession 14, (Hillway Equipment). To date, the Council of the corporation of the Township of Oro not made a decision on this application, other than proceeding to this Public Meeting. Only after comments are received from the Public, requested agencies and Township Staff, within the appropriate time period, will Council make a decision on this application. Notice of the Public Meeting was mailed out on January 31, 1992, all property owners within 400 feet of the subject lands. Notice the Public Meeting was also placed in both the Barrie Examiner and Orillia Packet on January 31, 1992. Reeve Robert E. Drury then asked the Clerk if there had been any correspondence received on this matter. The Clerk responded by indicating that no correspondence had been received. The Reeve then stated that those persons present would be afforded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to the proposed Amendments. He then turned the meeting over to Mr. Doug Skelton, the applicant's consultant, to explain the purpose and effect of proposed Official Plan and zoning By-Law Amendments. ~ - 2 - Doug Skelton: The purpose of the meeting as we see it is to review an expansion proposal by Hillway Construction which is a company associated with Russell stewart Construction Company. The President of that company is here, Mr. Glen stewart and his wife and also here with me tonight is Gary Bell from our office, our senior Planner, Ann Guiot from our office who is the Planner in the aggregates field and also Sharon Lee of Dixon Hydrogeology and she is the hydrogeologist on the project. The purpos is to review this expansion proposal and t answer any questions you people might have regarding the application. The location has been described as Part of Lots 8, 9 and 10, on Concession 14, in the Township of Oro. The materials we are talking also about an existing operation which is marked in yellow here and the expansion is to the new pink boundary. There are two small pockets here to the East of the existing operation and there i two small pockets to the South with the major expansion being to the North. The tests have been done by Stewart, approximately seventy odd bore holes have been done throughout the whole project. There is no doubt that the materials are there, the materials are consistent with what has already come out of the pit here. This is identified under the ontario Geological Survey, that this is in a secondary area of importance. That is als consistent with what we are finding in the materials and that is that it is variable over the whole property both horizontally and vertically because there is a lot of variation of materials ranging from sand t stone and in fact some clay. One of the requirements of the Aggregate Resources Act is this drawing and the drawings that I am going to be showing you are all requirements of the Aggregate Resources Act. This is the existing feature drawing and it shows all of the existing features, including the topograph of the land and it also shows the trees an it shows all of the residents within one hundred and fifty metres and also within three hundred metres of the site. The boundary of the existing area covers approximately 116 acres. The expansion is another 160 acres. The total of the whole site will be in the order of 278 acres. The owner of the lands are owned by a combination of a Mr. A. Anderson and Georg Anderson, the applicant however is Hillway Construction. One of the points we will be stressing throughout and I think it is important to make it at the beginning is that this is a expansion to an existing area. The actual tonnage to be mined annually is not being changed, really it is a continuation of an - 3 - Doug Skelton: existing application. It is currently licenced at 540 thousand tonnes per year. This drawing points out all of the trees 0 the boundary of the property. None of the trees on the boundary of the property woul be affected. The topography currently as you can see a small portion goes to the North-East and the balance of the lands drain into the central portion of the lands. These areas are relatively flat an there are no creeks, streams running through the property at all. The uses are Agricultural and Residential. Also one of the features of the site is Trans Canada Pipeline going through the central portion of this lower area. The existing operation was licenced in 197 for 540 thousand tonnes. The annual tonnage has ranged from 400 to 450 thousan tonnes per year. The processing, portable pressure follows the face. The washing an the screening operation occurs in this are here and there is a sediment pond located here (pointed to map) where water is pumpe out, used for the processing and the washing and then is returned to this area for the sediment to settle out. It is a closed system with no overflow off of the property. Similarly the surface drainage from the site is contained on the site now The operational plan is another requiremen of the Aggregate Resources Act and this shows the operational plan. As you can se the processing area remains here and the mining will continue and after the meeting you are quite welcome to come up and look at the drawing in detail. (Pointed to map which indicated by arrows the sequence of the mining.) The idea will be to mine these general areas within a metre and a half of the water table with the exception of this area and that area where two ponds will be formed as a result of the mining. With the exception of these two areas, all mining will be kept to a metre and a half above the water table. It is also important to note that the mining will com in a couple of different directions and th purpose of that is to be mining and crushing behind the face of the mining operation so that the face always remains between the crusher and the residences located around the perimeter and that is done from the point of view of mitigating noise. The other purpose of mining to the maximum limit of the floor and then proceeding in this direction and that direction, as opposed to mining one lift over the whole area and then mining anothe lift over the whole area, the idea is to get to the pit floor as quickly as possibl so that you can mine that area out and rehabilitate as you go. The other purpose is to keep a maximum depth of face at all times, from the point of view of noise mitigation. The maximum depth of the site is something like twenty-five metres of excavatio. - 4 - Skelton: Drainage on the site will always be contained onto the site, that is surface drainage. This whole area will all drain into this pond area. The purpose of that is to put all surface drainage back into the ground water system and also so that n off site drainage occurs to provide any kind of drainage onto adjacent properties. Berms will be constructed in this location and also partially across the North. Thos berms are for two purposes, number one for taking away noise and the other is to provide a barrier between the road and the residents. Those berms will be a minimum of three and a half metres and somewhat higher than that in other locations. The product stock piles will be limited to a maximum height of eleven metres. The access will continue to be off of the 13th Line here, where there is a scale house located in this location here. All of this remains the same. The washing operation remains the same. Fuelling will be limited to only fuelling equipment on the site that is not kept elsewhere. Fuel will be stored in above ground tanks in concrete containment areas so that if any leak occurred in one of those tanks then the containment area is large enough to catch and hold any fuel that might leak out. Only a limited amount of servicing will be done on equipment and that will be done on a concrete pad adjacent to the scale house. Dust control will be provided by the applicant using water and any other dust suppressants that may be approved by the Ministry of the Environment. All of these requirements that I have mentioned, regarding fuelling, dust control, etc. are all set out in the notes on the drawings. One of the requirements of the Ministry of Natural Resources is it use to be when we were working under the pits and Quarries Act, we had the existing feature drawing, the operational drawing and then one final drawing that showed wha it looked like when we were finished. There was never any drawing that showed sort of a sequence; it never showed how you get to the final rehabilitating drawing. Under the Aggregate Resources Ac you must show some sequence and that is what these two drawings do here. You can see that at this particular stage of development of the pit you can see that all of this area has been rehabilitated an this is done progressively. The way that is done is with all of the top soil and th horizon B soil, are all stock piled separately in stripe, they are then put back on to the site, in the reverse order of taking them off. A seeding is then don of all of these areas and vegetation is planted. - 5 - Doug Skelton: So at this stage of the game then, (point to all of the areas that has been mined) and all of the cross hatched area has bee rehabilitated. On this sequence drawing you can see that this mining is completed and this whole area including the slope is all rehabilitated and we are now mining u into this area here (pointed to map). These cross sections that you see show wha it looks like if you put a slice horizontally through the soil where you ca see the existing slope, the trees and then the final mined area. In this case you ca see the slope which is a three to one slop with trees being planted on that slope. The final drawing shows the finally rehabilitated site. Here is the site totally mined out and you can see all of this green area here indicates all those slopes are going to be reforested. All of these slopes will be built on a three to one slope. Every seven and one half metre vertically, there is a three metre wide bench so that it is terraced. The terracing provides drainage and also provides stability to the slope. In terms of quantity of the site and the existing quantities of materials from the site; the existing site has some eleven million metric tonnes of material left. The new site has some ten million tonnes. The total life of the site would be somewhere in the order of twenty-five to forty years. What about the environmental impacts now, we are all concerned about that and we all have the same interests. First of all wit respect to ground water, Sharon will deal with that and will indicate that the impacts are negligible and in some respect positive. Surface water, we are always concerned about what happens to surface water when it contains sediments and so on getting into the streams and you have seen on construction sites, bails of straw and other kinds of measurers to control that kind of thing. Where we can we design these sites so that there is no drainage off the site. From an ecological point of view, we retai the services of a firm Ecological Services for Planning, in Guelph, and they have worked on a lot of these projects. Their basic report and I will just quote one sentence and it says "the site does not contain regionally or provincially significant environmental features and the proposed use is appropriate." They do go on to make three or four recommendations. The first one is that the operation of rehabilitation should be phased to maximiz wildlife habitat. As I mentioned, one of the purposes of mining to the pit floor sort of as we go means that we can then rehabilitate that for the purposes of - 6 - Doug Skelton: agriculture and wildlife. You will see that all of this sloped area and green are is what is being reforested. That constitutes 29.8 hectares of the amount of woodlot that is actually been taken off is 14 hectares. So in fact, we are doubling the woodlot habitat on the site and that i consistent with the recommendation. The second recommendation is quality and drainage off the contained. I mentioned that what we are doing and we are entirely. that the wate site should b is exactly containing it The third recommendation is that the vegetative screening should be made of species and that is something that we will get advice from them on and also the Ministry of Natural Resources as to the nature of the screening. So we have dealt with all of E.S.P.'s recommendations. From the noise point of view, we are concerned, first of all from the point of view of the residents to the East. From the South, we do have one residence within the three hundred metres and with the exception with mining in this corner here, they will be three hundred feet from the processing. One of the requirements of th site Plan drawings are that no processing will occur closer than three hundred metre to any of the residences. We have in all of our experience, dealing with these matters, we have found that when you have vertical separation of what we have here, horizontal separation of three hundred metres and berms, then that provides suitable attenuation. In the case of the residence here which is the Fitchett residence, we have provided a berm coming around here and this is a vertical separation from fifteen years, so we considered suitable mitigation will be provided in that residence. Similarly in the Hunter/Dankewich residence located here, it is already 160 metres from the pi base and the processing will not be within three hundred and again there will be a berm. similarly in the Johnson residence here, there is also a berm in that location. So we feel from a noise point 0 view the site is also well suited for nois attenuation, due to the natural features and also due to berming. Visual impact; some of the slope you will continue to see that as you see it now. Basically there are some locations from th road that you see it and that will continue, with the closest view being on the 13th line. From the 13th line the sit is very well situated because of the fact that all of the mining operations are belo grade and you have a natural buffer, - 7 - Doug Skelton: existing trees, plus the berms, so you wil not see anything other than the construction of the berms. So visually it is well suited. Dust; Mr. Stewart operates a very good operation in terms of Dust Control and I will show you some pictures illustrating that. He will continue to do that. He ha paved his entrance in this location which is one of the usual dust producers. He does also water his haul roads so as to keep dust at a minimum. There will be a requirement set out in the site Plans that if there are any objections or concerns expressed by the Public during operation, then he will have to look into those inquiries and also undertake any monitorin if necessary, and certainly undertake any mitigation. We do not see that there is any additional problem created by the fact that we are expanding this operation. Traffic; basically will continue as it is now. There is an agreement that Mr. Stewart signed with the municipality that obligated him and the Oro Sand and Stone operation on the West side of the 13th to reconstruct the 13th down to the County Road and hard surface it and that was done back several years ago and he will be required to maintain that as he has in the past. Traffic will remain the same as it is now. The agreement provides that all 0 Mr. Stewart's traffic must come out of the entrance and head South and use the County Road and any other use than that he has to review that with the municipality. The purpose being of course is to limit the bulk of the traffic to this road down to County Road 11, unless he receives approva otherwise. From a safety point of view, the site will be fenced and locked gates, as currently i the case now. From an economic point of view, the municipality under the new Aggregate Resources Act gets four cents a metric tonne for every tonne that is taken out of here. At the maximum tonnage that would b something like $18,000.00 per year from this operation and that is in addition to taxes, etc. From the point of view from the impacts, all of those impacts can be adequately taken care of without a problem and will b no more than they are now. The stipulatio and requirements will be all in the site Plan, setting out these requirements with respect to all aspects of the environment and with respect to meeting all requirements of the Environmental Protection Act. - 8 - Skelton: I would like to conclude by stating that having been through this process, there is a resource here, it is required to be mined, it is good quality and it can be extracted with minimal impact on the community. It is an extension to an existing operation which means the perception of this kind of an operation to the Public is perhaps better as an extension to an existing operation, than a brand new operation located in the heart 0 a community that has no other gravel pits operating. Proper controls can be put int place and are in place for making sure all of the things that we talked about are adequately fulfilled. It is certainly mining of this resource for the benefit of the community and the larger area, and is certainly consistent with the provincial Guidelines under the Mineral Aggregate Resource Policy. We are satisfied what we have done in this project is consistent with the interests of the Public. We also have a few photos that you are welcome to come and look at to give you some more detail. I should also mention that it is in the operators interest to rehabilitate because he also puts up another eight cents a tonn that goes into a Provincial Fund and he does not get that eight cents a tonne back unless he rehabilitates. Sharon Lee: The existing operation is extraction to at least 1.5 metres above the water table. There is existing washing operation on site, water obtained from on site ponds to which it is recirculated. The proposed expansion is for the majority and extraction above the water table with extraction below the water table occurring in two locations at the South East corner of the property. The proposed extraction below the water table will be by drag line operation and no dewatering will occur. The creation of the two ponds will be to a depth no greater than 10 metres below the water table. On site water use will remai as it is now with the total tonnage remaining the same and washing operations remaining as they are now. The water uses on site include washing operation and dust suppression. The washing operation; most of the water is returned to the wash pond with losses being in exported water and evaporation. This will of course remain a it is now. The excavation of the two ponds will resul in an equalization of the water table because the water table is sloped in this area. This will result in a slight increase in water levels down grading of the pond which is to the South East and a slight decline in water levels upgrading 0 the pond to the West. This change in wate - 9 - Sharon Lee: table is a localized condition which is no expected to expand to any great degree off site. The impact upgradient will be partially of set by increased recharge resulting from removal of soil and vegetation in this upgrading area as extraction occurs. Down gradient, there may be a slight increase i discharge to a wetland which is located in this area here. (Pointed to map) The wetlands are bounded to the North and West by rising ground levels and are controlled to the South East by drainage channel and culverts. Therefore, the wetland area is not expected to increase in size as a result in any increase in discharge. The water level rise is not expected to be significant at locations of the wells in the mobile home park or wells along the road in the eastern boundary. Any rises would be within the distance between the ground level and the static level within the wells and therefore there would not be a problem with artesian conditions. The rise is quite minimal when you get to the distances of the closest private well. A monitoring program will be set up, prior to the excavation of the pond, which will include the construction of three observation locations; one upgradient, on between the two ponds and two down gradients. The water levels will be monitored at these locations on a monthly basis initially and this will be adjusted as required. We propose to also monitor water levels at private accessible wells prior to the operation with the owners permission to establish background water levels and to obtain water samples for quality analysis, with the owners permission to also obtain background, ground water quality. As Doug mentioned, any fuel stored on site will be in containment areas to protect th ground water quality. Most fuelling of mobile equipment will be off site. Fuelling of stationary on site equipment would be in such a manner that waste fuel would be collected and removed from the site. Ann Guiot: As you have all heard several times this evening, the application we are dealing with under the Aggregate Resources Act is an expansion to an existing licence. As a result, the expanded land, the new land to the North, East and South are treated as a new application under the Aggregate Resources Act. The existing licence is no under review, however, new requirements under the Aggregate Resources Act will apply to the entire site. If approved, th entire site would eventually fall under on licence and one Site Plan. - 10 - Guiot: To initiate the application process under the Aggregate Resources Act, site Plans ar submitted to the Ministry of Natural Resources, they are then reviewed and subsequent revision are made as required. Once compliance has been received under th Aggregate Resources Act, then the formal application can be submitted and this initiates notification in local newspapers and notification by signing of the propert as well as a forty-five day circulation an objection period. We are currently awaiting comments from the Ministry of Natural Resources on our fourth submission and we anticipate compliance in the very near future. With respect to the Ministry of Natural Resources review itself, at the end of the forty-five days, the staff review all comments they have received from the Public, other agencies and Internal Services such as Fish and Wildlife and Forest Management Staff. The application is referred to the ontario Municipal Board for a hearing if one is requested or if th Ministry of Natural Resources deems that one is necessary. An ontario Municipal Board Hearing would deal concurrently with issues relating to Zoning and Official PIa Amendments as well. It should be noted at this time that prior to any licences being issued on site, the Zoning must first be i place to allow such a use to occur. Enforcement of the Aggregate Resources Act is always a large concern, especially to the surrounding neighbours and you can be assured that all contents of both the site Plan and conditions of the licence are enforceable under the Aggregate Resources Act. Failure to comply with the Aggregate Resources Act, the regulations, the site Plan or any conditions of the licence coul result in suspension of the licence and/or permanent revocation of the licence. Gary Bell: The applications in front of Oro, and I reiterate again what the Reeve mentioned, there has been no approval at all of any 0 the applications you have been hearing about tonight. What we have are three applications in total. Two applications are in front of your council. The first one is for an Official Plan Amendment and that is the area in orange which is for th pit expansion to the North. That land is now designated Agricultural and we are requesting that it be designated pits and Quarries which permits a pit and permits consideration of the details of Zoning and the licence that you have been hearing about. There are two particular areas tha have been designated Agricultural previously and we are requesting that they be pits and Quarries. That is a total of approximately forty eight hectares of new area for this new land use. - 11 - Gary Bell: Similarly there is a Zoning By-Law request for those same orange areas to the North, and in addition, the lands to the South that have been described to you are requested for a Zoning By-Law Amendment bu they have already been designated pits and Quarries because the information available to the municipality at the time the Official Plan was done was sufficient then to note the quality and quantity of sand and gravel in the ground and therefore it was already designated pits and Quarries. As Ann described, we are dealing with the whole pit all at once and the Rezoning we are requesting would go over all of the pi and it would be requested a special zone and that is so that the side yard and the rear yard, these are the setbacks to extraction from the property lines, can be recognized in accordance with the Official Plan and with the Aggregate Resources Act requirements which is 15 metres of side an rear yard. That is not currently the case in the General Municipal Oro By-Law and we are requesting that special provision to reflect the Official Plan and the Aggregat Resources Act. I would just like to point out that the Township of Oro Official Plan has quite extensive policy in it that we must demonstrate compliance to, in order to carryon and seek the zoning and ultimatel a licence. Where we go from here is that we have an Official Plan Amendment in fron of Council and following addressing all of your concerns and Council's concerns, we hope that they would adopt that Official Plan Amendment which is an indication that the application will go on through the process, the land use part. Then we are looking to proceed with the Ministry process that Ann described to you of the licence and circulation and that involves full input from the municipality in detail and the Public in detail. Once then we have addressed the details of municipal an public concerns, we will be asking for Council's adoption of a Zoning By-Law Amendment, putting in place all the matter that the Council sees necessary, prior to that. In total, there is a three part application and we would be pleased to answer any questions under any part of it tonight. David Anderson: What is the difference between the Townshi of Oro and what the Act states with regard to the property line setbacks? Gary Bell: The Township of Oro in its Official Plan, its policy prescribes a 30 metre front and rear yard setbacks, however the Aggregate Resources Act and its regulation, calls fo a 15 metre interior or rear yard, so if yo have as the Township of Oro policy and the Provincial Legislation saying that the - 12 - Bell: interior yards may be as little as 15 metres and this pit has been operating for a number of years generally in compliance with the Provincial Legislations. Anderson: The rear yard, that is from the fence line to the point where it slopes or is that to the base of the floor pit. Gary Bell: It is a setback to the edge of extraction; at the top of the ground level. The front yards are all along the concession road an all of those are 30 metres, everything els are on the entire internal boundaries, whether you call it the side or rear yard, it is to be a minimum of 15 metres. David Anderson: During extraction is that slope the same a during rehabilitation or is there somethin added? Doug Skelton: The pits and Quarries requirements of the Resources Act requires that you rehabilitate to a three to one slope. Wha we have is a detail which will appear on the drawings that allows mining to occur t a one and a half to one slope, providing there are materials available to rehabilitate to a three to one slope befor mining to a one and a half to one slope. So to answer your question, you can mine beyond so that it is steeper than a three to one slope but you have to rehabilitate back to a three to one. David Anderson: My concern is basically the property to th South, the bush there, what level will it affect the trees in going so close? Has anybody ever done a study as to how close you can actually get into a property when the trees are on the other side and how close you can get without disturbing them? Doug Skelton: First of all we would not be disturbing an trees that are on the fence line now. Generally speaking, our experience is that the root structure is about the same limit as what the drip line on the tree is. We have a 15 metre setback which is a 50 foot setback so you would not have trees that had a span of one hundred feet so we would not be dealing with cutting any of those roots. David Anderson: What is the actual rise in the water? Sharon Lee: Across the north pond, will result in a rise of approximately one metre in the vicinity of the pond. When you get to a distance off site you are looking in the order of 10 metres. David Anderson: The extraction depth, did you say 30 metres? Doug Skelton: The maximum depth of extraction would be approximately 25 metres. - 13 - David Anderson: Is there any recourse if something goes wrong with the water? Sharon Lee: We will be installing the monitoring stand pipe to monitor water levels. We would no expect a problem. Seasonal fluctuations in the water table and spring run off would b a greater change to the base flow. (Cannot make out from the tape exactly what is being said.) David Anderson: Is that monitoring done within the Company or does the Ministry oversee that, or who looks after that? Sharon Lee: Reports are sent to the Ministry. Jack Anderson: How far below the water level are you goin to extract? Sharon Lee: A maximum of 10 metres in two locations. Jack Anderson: If you disturb the water level and once yo change your course, what happens? Sharon Lee: The general groundwater flow in the area i not going to change direction, there will be a small localized change near the pond. The groundwater flow direction is in an East/Southeast direction. Jack Anderson: Our well is over 200 feet deep and by the way you are extracting you are down 200 feet now above us and if you go down 200 feet you will disturb our flow of water. If the course don't change and you disturb to the North of you, that is what I am worrying about. Where the pipeline goes through, how far are you suppose to stay away from that easement? Gary Bell: 15 metres on either side of it. Doug Skelton: Mr. Anderson, in this spot here we are not mining below the water table. So this corner here which is closest to your residence, we are not mining to the water table. The only areas that we are mining to the water table and beyond are in this area here and that area there (pointed to map) and we are only going 10 metres below the water table, which is 32 feet. As Sharon says, the water elevation in these ponds here is going to be the same or perhaps slightly higher than it is before we create the pond. The water elevation i there with or without the pond. To answer your question about interference with your well, this is not going to interfere with your well. Jack Anderson: The white area on the map, why is it shown to be an extraction area? - 14 - Doug Skelton: It is all part of the area to be mined and it is also the part that is designated in the Official Plan for mining and it makes sense to mine the whole thing at one time. It will have no effect on your well. I would like to make a comment about the whole question of interference with the well. Most times, many of our concerns, yours and ours, are not that we are going to raise your well but that there is going to be some possible impact on lowering you well. In this case, because of the topography, hydrogeology, and because of what is being proposed, there is one effec of more infiltration occurring over the site because of all the water being there, which tends to increase the ground water elevation. Part of the calculation that i being done by Dixon is to take into accoun the increased water, the decreased water, because of the mining and also because of the evaporation. The result of all those calculations indicate that there will most definitely not be a decrease in the water but there is likely to be a very marginal increase in the water elevation. Robert Quinn: I have property, Lot 8. My trees are all dying along the edge (Maples) and Lands an Forests said it is likely from the gravel operation. Doug Skelton: Mr. Quinn, we are familiar with the proble you are speaking of and just so that everybody else in the room is familiar wit it. I am not sure of how much of this Ian Mr. Quinn owns, but the woodlot he is referring to is located right here in this area. We too have been on the site, Ann has been on the site and also attended on the sit with the pits and Quarries Inspector from the Ministry of Natural Resources and also one of their biologists forester and a hydrogeologist. They looke at this and looked at whether or not the mining in this area here had affected thos trees. They were of the common opinion an I suppose we have correspondence in file, indicating that it is not the mining in th fact that dried the trees out. There is some question though that because there wa mining that occurred with the Ministry of Natural Resources permission, had occurred in this area here and the trees that were here were cut down, then exposed those mature trees to a new situation as a resul of the old trees coming down and I believe that is what they state the cause was. If it was or wasn't the cause, this is all being rehabilitated and one of their recommendations is that this setback here be reforested and this plan calls for that On the West boundary adjacent to your tree loss there are no mature trees that are going to be cut down. - 15 - Robert Quinn: I would just like to ask the Council and the Reeve if they would come up and have a look at this. The Ministry already sent m a letter saying it was nothing to do with that. They never even seen it so how woul they know? Ann Guiot: I was on site with them during a site inspection and Pat Curl is the Aggregate Officer for this area and he indicated tha he had permission to investigate your property and that is why the M.N.R. Staff from Head Office were up to do the investigation on site that day. We went through Stewart's pit and investigated you bush both from the pit side and walked on your property through your bush. Robert Drury: I am going to recommend here Mr. Skelton that you supply the municipality and Mr. Quinn with all the correspondence from the Ministry of Natural Resources on their sit visit and from there we will make that determination and in fact we will go down for a site visit ourselves. Alan Wayne: One of the things that some of these gentlemen are concerned about, is there a guarantee if they do have a problem? Who is going to foot their bill of correcting the problem, is Stewart going to reimburse them or is the Township going to reimburse and is there a letter you people are going to give these people? Doug Skelton: First of all with respect to any impact on the wells, the ontario Water Resources Act requires that interferences caused to private wells as a result of this operation, then it is the applicant's responsibility to make good either by deepening the well or providing some other source. So that is already provided in th legislation and I am sure that Mr. Stewart would not shirk any responsibility. with respect to the tree issue, I do not think it has been determined exactly what caused the problem and we will provide the correspondence on that and it is not necessarily due to this pit application. What I do want to stress is what is happening on the expansion part of the pit there will be no trees cut down, so the situation is different in the expansion area than what it was in the other area. Alan Wayne: Whatever moisture is there is drained back out of the soil at the present time? Doug Skelton: I heard that concern expressed and that is why the Ministry of Natural Resources has hydrogeologist go there with them to look at the site and they concluded that, that was not the case. Robert Quinn: You said there was no trees, there certainly is trees. - 16 - Doug Skelton: What I meant Mr. Quinn was that there are no trees on our site that we are going to be removing and cut them down to expose your trees. That is what happened on this site and the foresters thought that perhap it was the cutting of that mature growth, in advance of the mining, then exposed you trees, that caused that die back. Nothing to do with water, having to do with the exposure. Reeve Drury: If I may make a recommendation that they visit that site with the forester, with Mr Quinn, verify the situation in front of hi so he knows one way or the other and to ease Mr. Quinn's mind. Joanne Garside: (Cannot distinguish what is being said, must not be speaking into the microphone) What are the pit operators or other individuals prepared to do about it if wha you are proposing does not turn out, if w do have problems with our water quality an quantity. Ann Guiot: It is part of our monitoring program, that prior to the extraction of the pond, water levels at local private wells, water level will be measured, with the owners permission and that water samples will be taken for quality and quantity, with the owners permission. Joanne Garside: Does soil testing fall under that too? Ann Guiot: We are not proposing to do any kind of a soil, moisture kind of study. Joanne Garside: Considering that you are doing this excavating you are creating a state that i not there now, exposing a section of land to wind and sun effects, why? Ann Guiot: That is why the buffer zones are a requirement to provide an area that is vegetated. 'Joanne Garside: (Cannot make out what is being said, must not be speaking at the microphone) Doug Skelton: All we can say on that matter is it is not proposed to do those kinds of studies that you are talking about because the requirements are set out by the Province, are going to be met and fulfilled here. I think I spoke of the fact that the situation is not the same here as it was i this location because we will not be cutting down any trees adjacent and exposing those mature trees that the situation that you are talking about. I have never heard of any such studies being requested. Joanne Garside: These studies are deficient and may be the O.M.B. should be aware. - 17 - Reeve Drury: This is the first time I have heard about moisture study; there is such a thing is there? Joanne Garside: (Cannot hear the tape clearly) There are resource people who will do it. Reeve Drury: This is something that the municipality will have to take a hard look at and decid whether or not we are going to request thi type of a study. Doug or Sharon maybe you can answer the question. Is there such a study, can it be done? Doug Skelton: You can certainly do moisture studies and determine the moisture content of the soil before and after. I am not sure, I am not familiar with the studies that are being referred to here as causing effects 300 feet into a wood lot. Joanne Garside: The people from the Ministry of Natural Resources, which Branch, the Aggregate Resources Branch or wildlife Branch? Sharon Lee: Pat Curl was with the Aggregate Resources Branch, he is the Aggregate Officer. Ther was also the forester for the local District of Huronia and John Puma is the hydrogeologist out of Queens Park in Toronto and the ecologist/biologist out of Queens Park also was in attendance at that meeting. Reeve Drury: Another question for Ms. Garside. You brought the comment forward about problems with the wells with regard to quality and quantity; are these dug or drilled wells? Joanne Garside: Just is general will a person with a dug well be more vulnerable than a drilled well. (Cannot make out what is being said. Doug Skelton: Ms. Garside, we would appreciate very much receiving some of the studies that you hav done with that clerical evidence, at least the titles and who the authors were becaus we would like to have a look at that. Garth Daniels: I believe you said that the lands topsoil was going to be put on and put back to farmland; how many acres would it be? Doug Skelton: There is going to be 120 acres which would be returned to agriculture. Garth Daniels: I believe you also said you are going to g down to different depths, I believe you mentioned 30 feet and I believe you mentioned 50 feet. will this be different heights all through that 100 and some acres. Doug Skelton: 25 metres is the maximum which is 80 feet. No it will not be different heights it is measured from the existing topography and the reason the depth varies is not because - 18 - Doug Skelton: of the variation in the pit floor it is because of the variation of the upper surface. Garth Daniels: So the hundred and some acres will be f Doug Skelton: It will not be perfectly flat, it will a minimum slope of one and a half to two percent throughout this whole site that will be quite farmable. Garth Daniels: What will grow there, are there any examples in the Province that I can drive to a pit that has been reclaimed and see somebody farming? Doug Skelton: Yes, we can give you a list. down in East Gwillimbury. There is Garth Daniels: If ten or fifteen years down the road and somebody wanted to put a housing development in there perhaps instead of a farm, could they do that? Doug Skelton: I think they would have a lot of problem doing that and that certainly is not contemplated by this application. I know that the arrangements that Mr. Stewart with the Andersons is that it is conditional upon it being put back into order that it can be farmed. Reeve Drury: What Class of farmland is that now? Gary Bell: It is Class 6P for stoniness. This land has limited agricultural capabilities. Sharon Lee: Furthermore, just to assure you, if there were to be any change in the actual rehabilitation process that has been outlined in the site Plan, there would to be a special application made to the Ministry of Natural Resources and would have to be granted. So right now rehabilitation must be done in accordance with these site Plans which has specifics for rehabilitation for agriculture. Lynn Murray: My question is concerning the acreage is presently there, you mentioned acres of wood lot, is that correct? Doug Skelton: 14 hectares. Lynn Murray: To your knowledge, what are the age of trees in that area? Doug Skelton: They would be mature but I could not put actual age on them. Lynn Murray: And you said you were going to be doubl the size of that wood lot that is there. Could you tell us what age of trees you would be planting? Doug Skelton: It would vary in the order of three to to six years. - 19 - Lynn Murray: Doug Skelton: Lynn Murray: Would that be mature trees in your eyes? No. So rehabilitation does not put it back to what it was? Doug Skelton: It is not instantaneous, if that is what you mean. Lynn Murray: We are talking about wildlife habitat and if you are destroying wildlife habitat is there presently with mature standing trees then you want to encourage that wildlife habitat. Replacing it with nothing near the mature stand is not going to do what you are hoping to do by this. Lynn Murray: I would like to direct my next question the Reeve. Could you within a few acres give an estimate of how may acres we have in North Oro that is presently under application for licence for aggregate? Reeve Drury: I do not have the figures before me so I will not respond right at this time, however, I will respond when I have the figures before me. Lynn Murray: I think when you consider the 7th Line, which is now looking at an acreage of 800 acres. Lynn Murray: I think it is important, the Council I should be looking at the overall acreage that is now being proposed for North Oro. Reeve Drury: We are dealing with this application this evening, it has nothing to do with the 7 line. Reeve Drury: The Council is looking at all acres that are being proposed. Lynn Murray: The question is, I wonder if the people have lived here for many years and the people who have moved into the area over the past few years, moved to Oro to see rolling hills and the rural population the agricultural area as it is, turned an area of crushers, other functioning machinery that might take place on the hundreds of acres and have really changed the whole impression of our Township. Reeve Drury: Most of these acres that have been for zoning changes have been designated many, many years in the Official Plan, therefore, most people that have moved and have taken time to read the Official Plan will know the designation has been there for many, many years. Joanne Garside: (Could not distinguish from the tape what was being said.) - 20 - Jim Langman: Have you done any study as to approximatel how many acres you are taking out of the Bass Lake Water Shed and putting into Lake Simcoe Water Shed? Doug Skelton: We have not actually tallied that. believe it would be very, very insignificant. I Dr. Beaton: You mentioned this project is being carrie on under the Hillway name, there have been some signs posted along the 12th Line indicating that some of the land in that area is under application for aggregate. Are those signs still there along the 12th Line? Doug Skelton: I don't know whether at this moment they are there but I am familiar with the fact that they have been there recently. Dr. Beaton: How does the expansion of the stewart's/Hillway project on the 14th Concession, how does that relate to these signs for future development to the 12th and 13th Concession? Is there some long range plan to continue on? Doug Skelton: There is no long range plan. I think it i fair to say that Mr. Stewart has entered into discussions with both land owners and there is some consideration within the future that might happen. Mr. Stewart has applications in several municipalities currently under review and he doesn't know any better that any of the rest of us in the room, which ones are going to get approved and which ones are going to have to go to the Board to get approval and we do not know if it is going to take two years to get approval or ten. He is just being up front by giving the Public notice that there is some consideration he is being given at this time. Dr. Beaton: Obviously he must be serious or you would not see the signs. Doug Skelton: There is no applications being made and there has been no studies done. Joanne Garside: The portion of the plan that requires an amendment to the Official Plan, could you point it out to me? Gary Bell: (Indicated on the map.) Joanne Garside: (Cannot make out what is being said, must not be talking at the microphone.) Gary Bell: It already is in the aggregate resources inventory. He is asking that this valuabl aggregate resource, be designated pits and quarries in the Official Plan which would allow us to carryon with consideration of zoning and licencing. Garside: Drury: Garside: Skelton: Joanne Garside: Deputy Reeve Caldwell: - 21 - So what we are saying is, it would appear that throughout a large section of North Oro there may be many lands that would fal into this type of category? Would you agree with that? Yes. (Cannot make out what is being said.) If I could just make one comment with regard to the fact that there is an O.M.B. Hearing into an aggregate expansion in North Oro, March 23rd and maybe mention with that, the question of the cumulative impact of the expansion of mining and I think it would be rather inappropriate to give any real serious consideration to thi proposal until the hearing is over and a decision of the O.M.B. Hearing is known to us. Further to Dr. Beaton's comments, we understand full well what is going on with the 7th line, but I would just like to point out to Council that this is a separate application and if this goes to a hearing then indeed it can go to a hearing but whatever happens on the 7th line is going to deal with the 7th line, it is not going to deal with this application. We are suggesting that it is not either in th Public interest or in the interest of the applicant to hold this up on account of something else that is happening in the municipality. That is what we would urge Council to get on dealing with this application on its own merit. The last point I would like to make is we really do welcome the opportunity to come to speak to the public on applications lik this and the Reeve suggested that we shoul exchange information with you people, whic we are quite prepared to do, we will give you copies of the M.N.R. correspondence which has to do with the trees and we thin that in the true spirit of co-operation an exchange of information that we would like to receive in return information from you. Ms. Garside, we would like very much to as I suggested earlier, if you do have such studies that refer to this 300 foot die back then we would appreciate receiving some information on that. I will be happy to forward the information that I have. (Cannot make out what else i being said.) with respect to these ponds that you have on the property, how large are they now an how deep are they now? During extraction, how much are they going to expand? What would the slope be on the edges of those ponds? . Skelton: llor crawford: Doug Skelton: councillor crawford: Glen stewart: Lynn Murray: - 22 - What we have now you can see that the area is quite small, about 1/2 acre by 1 foot deep and that is currently what is there and the sediment collects there and that i cleaned out and used for rehabilitation. What will be built in the end you can see is considerably larger and those will be ten metres deep. I don't have an area but we can certainly take that off and give it to you. The slope of the edges has to be and cannot be any steeper than 3 to 1. I would like to know why the ponds are onl in this area? Is this the only area where there is significant aggregate below the water table or is there some other reason why this area was picked to go below the water table? There is a couple of reasons for that and Glen might want to add something to that. We recognize that the greater area that yo go below the water table the bigger impact you are going to have on the water table. When we talked about the off setting effects of mining below the water table which decreases the water elevation and opening the whole area up for infiltration which increases the water level is that th net change is to marginally increase the level which means we have no problem with giving assurances that they are not going to affect the wells. Alternatively, once you start to expand the area that goes below the water table the bigger effect yo are going to have on it. The second reason is that we did want to return much of the area to agriculture because that was the request of the land owners to do that. When you return it to agriculture then of course you cannot mine there below the water table because we hav no materials to fill the ponds back in. When you did test borings in the other hundred acre site, did you do below the water table with those borings and is ther aggregate below the water table or is ther a clay base. We did not go below the water table and there is a clay base. I am here to present a letter from an association that is in the area and I will give the letter to you after I explain it. The letter is from the Oro Ridges Moraine Association and it is just basically wishing to express a strong opposition to the proposed Official Plan Amendment here in the rezoning of these lands. Basically they are urging council not to make any extremely premature decisions with respect to this application pending the O.M.B. Hearing on March 23, 1992. Bell: Murray: Reeve Caldwell: Gary Bell: Robert Quinn: Doug Skelton: Robert Quinn: Sharon Lee: Robert Quinn: Doug Skelton: Robert Quinn: Jack Anderson: Reeve Drury: Jack Anderson: - 23 - Is the association objecting to the zoning By-Law Amendments as well or just to the Official Plan Amendment? To both. There are signs on the 12th and I believe the 13th concessions, although this applicant may not be planning on doing anything here, are there any other applications by other pit operators that you are aware of, proposing future development in this area? Yes, Council has last year adopted Off Plan Amendment for Oro Sand and stone. That is an example where the aggregate is identified as being an extension of the existing designated area. It has been designated in the Official Plan and we still in the process of working out the details of zoning and licence application. I do not know of any others. Where the proposed ponds are, how are you going to put that back into farmland? That is what we have said Mr. Quinn is these will remain as ponds but the ba will be put back into farmland. I have a dug well that feeds over 300 of cattle, what happens if it goes dry? We do not anticipate a problem with water levels to decline but if there was a loss due to the operation, the operator would be required to replace or deepen well for adequate water supply. It is a requirement. I know about requirements, but if you kil somebodies bushes you are suppose to do something with it but you don't. How deep is your well Mr. Quinn and could you point it out to us? 30 feet. I must say that water pollution has got be quite a thing. In the city of Orillia their well they reported is polluted with dioxins and they don't know where it came from. They had a spring in their little park that went for years, to the north of it where it started, is housing deve and now that little spring is gone it condemned. There is so many wells and you have a good well that you are proud and something happens, it is not going to happen at the present but it is over a years time, that is what I am worried about. Are you referring to dioxins or nitrates? Everything. - 24 - Drury: It is people that contaminate water and unfortunately a lot of the nitrates that get into deeper aquifers come from the far fields, manures, fertilizers, etc. Wayne: If they would write a letter to the Township, I am sure that this fine Council would be well aware of it and would make them responsible for any damage that is done to their property, is this correct? Drury: You are bringing forward a good point Mr. Wayne. Anyone that does have a complaint or wants their wells monitored, please notify us, so we can notify the developer that it has to be monitored and it will be put on record so that if there are any problems in future and it is determined that it is from the gravel pit then you will be reimbursed for it or a new well will be drilled for you. The onus is on you that if you want your well monitored, to get a letter into us so that we know. Garth Daniels: I just wanted to ask you about the water, you mentioned about washing, I presume tha is washing the aggregate, and it is recycled, I think there is going to be a large amount of silt and this is 30 feet below the water table, what are the chance of the silt getting into their stream wate or getting into their well? Sharon Lee: Water that is used in the washing operatio is discharged to the settling pond to allo the silt to settle down and right now it i about a foot deep. The discharge to the wetland is from the ground water on site (Can only distinguish part of what is bein said in this section.) (Refers to charts) The water that is gain into the wetland is flowing through the upper aquifer, flowing through the sand an gravel and as topography decreases the water discharges and forms a wetland. The transient time for the ground water flow i in the order of years, it is not a rushing stream. Doug Skelton: If I could add one thing, we have two different things going on. We first of al have the pond that we are using for fresh water supply for processing and we have th water coming out of that processing and going back into a sediment pond and it is really going around in a closed loop. We also have a ground water that is flowing a a different elevation and any surplus wate that is landing in the site into the groun water or runs across the surface into the storage ponds that we are talking about. The surplus of that groundwater flow, as Sharon says, it comes to the surface here and there and that is how the wetland is formed. But any water that goes from the site to that wetland does not flow overlan to the wetland it infiltrates into the ~ - 25 - Doug Skelton: ground into that ground water and then through that long period of time that you refer to it travels along. So your concer I believe was any of this surface that we talk about containing sediment, does it en up in the wetland? The answer is no. David Anderson: In the question before about cutting trees down, in the corner at the bottom, the 25 acres there, will all that area be left or will it be cut. Doug Skelton: Yes, there is a corner to be cut out of there (indicated on map) and 15 metres wil be left. There will be no trees cut in that buffer. Reeve Drury: A question through to Sharon; the ponds that are going to be there, are they going to be deep enough to sustain aquatic life? Sharon Lee: I don't know that they will, I am not a biologist. Doug Skelton: I can say Mr. Reeve in other projects we have been working on where that kind of study has been done, it has been confirmed that, that is the case and part of the secret is to get it deep, as you suggest. That is why it is 10 metres deep. Reeve Drury: Another question and my concern is on County Road No. 11 when you come out from the 13th line, and I will ask this questio to Mr. Stewart. Would you be willing to sit down and negotiate with the municipality and the County, improvements on the 13th line going towards Orillia after you leave the concession road. We have a great deal of concern on the 13th line and the hill going up past McEwens there, it is a dangerous corner, dangerous to get onto and dangerous to get off. Would you be willing to sit down and negotiate with the municipality, the other pit owner and the County, if in fact the municipality was in favour of a proposal such as yours and did support it? Glen stewart: Yes I would. Reeve Drury: I could not in any way support your proposal unless the 13th and County Road 1 is improved, in fact, an access lane and a egress lane. One other question for Ms. Murray and that is regarding the Oro Ridges Moraine Association, does that Association have a constitution? Lynn Murray: Yes. Reeve Drury: Could you supply the municipality with tha and the membership please. We try to keep track of all the ratepayers associations that are in the municipality. ... . - 26 - Boffo: A question on associations, wouldn't it prudent for Council to enact a by-law to ensure that any association of any sort that would like to have any say in this forum, that it be registered with this organization. Drury: Yes, it is something we could consider. Joanne Garside: You mentioned that you could not support this application without the roads, does that comment hold true to other matters too? Reeve Drury: We have to consider all the other before it even gets to this point. I would like to register with the people here that the municipality will be having staff reports brought back to us on this proposal, we have all been making notes here this evening and we will probably be back to the consultants quite a few times before we do make a decision on this application and will likely be some down the road, unless Council deems that all of the questions have been answered here this evening. I do expect it will sometime and there is a lot of work to be done before we can fully consider this application. There being no further questions or comments, the Reeve in closing the meeting, thanked those in attendance for their participation advised that Council would consider all matters before reaching a decision. He then advised those present that if they wished to be notified of the passing of the proposed By-law, they should leave their name and address with the Clerk. MOTION NO.1 Moved by Crokam, seconded by Caldwell Be it resolved that the Special Public Meeting of Council, Equipment, Part Lots 8, 9 & 10, Concession 14, P-4/91) now adjourned @ 9:35 p.m. ('