10 16 1996 Sp Public2 Minutes
THB CORPORATION 01' THB TO1fttSRIP 01' ORO-MBDQNTB
SPBCIAL PUBLIC lI.'DTING
M'BD'NBSDAY . OCTOBBR. 16. 19 9 6
.7t1S
P ..11.. - COUNCIL CRAlIBBRS
EIGHTY-EIGHTH MEETING 1994-1997 COUNCIL
The following members of Council were present:
8
Mayor Ian Beard
Deputy Mayor Murray Martin
Councillor Walter Dickie
Councillor Don Bell
Councillor Neil Craig
Councillor Ron Sommers
Councillor Larry Cotton
Staff Present:
Andria Leigh, Development Co-
ordinator, Jennifer Zieleniewski,
Treasurer/Administrator.
Also Present Were:
Hubert Schaefers, Shirley
Woodrow, June Beard, Helen Bell,
David Palmateer, Jamie Ough,
Peter James, R. Qusen, R. Moore,
Joan Moore.
Deputy Mayor Murray Martin chaired the meeting.
Deputy Mayor Martin opened the meeting by explaining to those
present that this Public Meeting was to receive public comments
wi th respect to a proposed Zoning By- Law Amendment, under
provisions of Sections 34 of the Planning Act. The applicant
has applied to rezone certain lands, Part of Lot 28, Concession
4, former Township of Oro. The proposed Zoning By-law Amendment
would rezone the lands to allow for a single family dwelling.
To date, the Council of the Corporation of the Township of Oro-
Medonte have not made a decision on this application, other than
proceeding to this Public Meeting. Only after comments are
received from the Public, requested agencies and Township staff,
within the appropriate time period, will Council make a decision
on this application.
Notice of the Public Meeting was mailed out on September 25,
1996, to all property owners within 400 feet of the subject
lands.
8
Deputy Mayor Martin then asked the Clerk if there had been any
correspondence received on this matter. The Clerk responded by
indicating that correspondence had been received from Mr. and
Mrs. Moore, G. W. Jorden, Planning Consultants and Mr. Jamie
Ough, Chairman Brambel Road Ratepayers Association. Mr. Moore
read his correspondence.
Rick Moore:
Mr. Chairman, my name is Rick Moore, we own a number of
properties on Brambel Road, also as you can see from this
letter, I have a home in Toronto where I spend most of my time
except for on the weekends when I spend my time here. I would
like to use an overhead if, projector, if I could.
Clerk:
Inaudible.
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Rick Moore:
So you just want me to read this. There were some (inaudible)
that backed up part of the letter, that is my point,
Clerk:
(Inaudible)
Rick Moore:
I will read
afterwards.
the
letter
and
then we will
worry about
that
8
Gentlemen: Re: Proposed Zoning By-law Amendment Application By
Hubert Schaefers As Agent For Ehard And Evelyn Kreis (No. P-
59/96) - To Be Considered On October 16, 1996 at 7:00 p.m. At a
Public Meeting.
With regard to the above mentioned application, we are adamantly
opposed to the granting of the requested rezoning. It is our
hope that the Council will seriously consider our position (as
outlined below) as well as examine the integrity of the intent
of the application.
8
In order to fully understand the present situation, we would
like the Council to be fully aware of the history of the
transactions which pertain to the approximately 5.4 acres of
Natural Area in question. In November and December 1980, a
numbered company, #462774 Ontario, the President of which is Mr.
Hubert Schaefers, obtained title to this land as well as to lot
#27, which fronts on Brambel Road (see Item #1). In 1981, this
entire package was the subject of an application to the Township
to allow development of the Natural Area portion of the parcel
of the land. This application was deemed inappropriate, and
rejected. In November, 1983, this entire package was conveyed
to Ehard and Evelyn Kreis of Buren Ahden, West Germany. Mr.
Schaefers' company was the vendor, and Mr. Schaefers was the
agent. The land was sold as one parcel as described in
Instrument #813798. In October 1985, without first obtaining
severance of the parcel, Mr. and Mrs. Kreis sold that portion of
the land described as lot #27 (and the only part zoned for
building) and remained owners of the 5.4 acre portion zoned
Natural Area and previously ruled inappropriate for development,
essentially land locking their own land, 10m wide which connects
his land to Brambel Road as well as (ostensibly), all of Block
"A" (Brambel Road). After being denied relief from the minimum
required lot frontage of 30m to 10m, in a minor variance
application in October 1995, Mr. Kreis, with Mr. Schaefers as
agent, transferred the small strip north of Brambel Road as well
as all of Brambel Road, into the joint name of Ehard and Evelyn
Kreis, maintaining that all the land was now one single,
continuous building lot with frontage of 20m on Oro Line #4.
The Kreis' then reapplied for relief from the minimum lot
frontage for a building lot from 30m to 20m. This was granted,
conditional on rezoning, and has been appealed to the Ontario
Municipal Board.
As owners of lots #12, 27, 28, 29 and 30, we are strongly
opposed to the approval of the rezoning as we were to the
granting of the minor variance to allow the building of any
dwelling on the Kreis' land. Our concerns are outlined below.
Environmental Concerns
This 5.4 acre parcel of land is part of an area (all zoned
Natural Area) which runs between Ridge Road and Brambel Road,
parallel to the lake and serves as a natural drainage basin for
storm and spring runoff (see Item #2). With the exception of
this one area, the topography of the land from Highway #11 to
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8
the Lake Simcoe waterfront is steadily downhill. Therefore in
the spring and during storms this land forms a swamp/wetland,
where water gathers and seeps into the land, draining slowly and
filtering pollutants naturally through the earth to the lake.
We believe that if any part of this environmentally sensitive
area was developed, the threshold amount of water which could be
handled by this natural drainage basin would be lowered and as
a direct consequence light amounts of rain/runoff could be
expected to result in the kind of drastic erosion of the street
and portions of the lake bank which has taken place during
cataclysmic storms on three occasions over the last 18 months.
Not only would erosion be a problem, but even more importantly
water pollution of the lake from fertilizers/pesticides used on
the farm fields between Highway #11 and Ridge Road would
increase if the area of land serving as a natural filter was
reduced by development. I would only add in that regard that if
at times you look at the quality of water today along the
lakefront, it is a matter of very serious concern and needs to
be investigated by Environment Canada or whomever the
appropriate authorities are.
PlanninG Concerns
We were represented by John Graham of Graham Wilson and Green in
October, 1995 at the first hearing of the application for minor
variance relief. At that time he demonstrated to the Committee
of Adjustment that granting permission to build on this land was
inappropriate because it would be a maj or variance of the
required frontage, and that it did not conform to the
requirement for the building of a single family dwelling in a
Natural Area as it was not a lot of record prior to 1979.
Furthermore he demonstrated that it did not conform to the
Official Plan and that it was poor planning due to the
inaccessibility and unusual shape of the lot. All of these
concerns apply equally to a rezoning, as they did to the minor
variance application. We have subsequently sought the
independent analysis of the situation by professional Planning
Consultant, G. W. Jordan, M.I.C.P. who is sending you a separate
letter outlining his objective assessment of the proposal.
LeGal Concerns
We note a number of errors and omissions in the application for
rezoning by Mr. Schaefers. A survey prepared by an Ontario Land
surveyor has not been provided as required (#12.2). In fact the
diagram of the land provided contains a number of errors. The
address provided for Mr. and Mrs. Kreis is illegible. The
justification for the application is a quotation from the
conditional decision of the Committee of Adjustment which is
under appeal and therefore inappropriate. We note that the
requested zoning on the application is RG and question why the
notice of public meeting shows the requested zoning
classification as NA-3(exception)!
8
The Kreis' purchase of all of Brambel Road from Mrs. Mackellar
was unusual and we question whether this was in fact a
conveyable property as it was dedicated as a Public Highway in
1937 by Gladys Mackellar, it was then subsequently "closed" by
Judges Order (instrument #14774) in 1943. The Township of Oro
named it Brambel Road from Bayview Road in 1992, and referred to
it as a Public Highway (instrument #01201908). It is therefore
difficult to understand how it could be considered part of a
building lot, particularly since taxes were not paid on Block
"A" by Mrs. Mackellar, and apparently only for one year by Mr.
and Mrs. Kreis.
The fact that the Kreis' sold off a portion of a parcel of land
in 1985 without first obtaining a severance is also unusual.
Finally, the 5.4 acres in question, although outside of
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Registered Plan 819, is to be accessed through this subdivision
in a very convoluted way.
It seems imperative that legal advise be obtained in order to
clarify these various murky legal issues before proceeding with
any changes to the Zoning By-laws.
Quality of Life/Compatibility Concerns
8
The lots on Brambel Road have been purchased and used for single
family homes. In a number of cases two adjoining lots have been
used for one home, and four lots are undeveloped and remain in
their natural forest state (see Item #3). The neighbourhood
therefore consists of beautifully maintained homes with wide
frontages on Brambel Road surrounded by well tended gardens and
augmented by numerous expanses of forest giving a peaceful rural
impression. The owners and residents of the street are very
alarmed by the proposed creation of an unsightly narrow road
leading back into the bush to an area of land cleared for
development.
Inteqrity of the Intent of the Application
Finally, in case there is some sYmpathy for the application for
rezoning based on the feeling that Mr. and Mrs. Kreis must not
be denied the right to develop their land, it is critical to
remember that they, fully cognizant of the Zoning By-laws and
Frontage restrictions, chose to sell off the only buildable
portion of the parcel of land which they owned, and continued to
hold title to only that part zoned natural area. Furthermore,
the Kreis' are not, have never been, and presumably are not
planning to be residents of Canada. Consequently, their
ownership of this land must be viewed as an investment and, as
such, has inherent risks. Mr. and Mrs. Kreis cannot expect the
Township of Oro-Medonte to change it's By-laws and Official Plan
in order to ensure that their investment is rendered lucrative.
In fact it reflects a callous disregard for the nature and
character of the neighbourhood as well as the careful planning
over the years by the Township that they continue to pursue the
notion of building on this land. Furthermore, if this rezoning
were to be granted, logic would dictate that all other owners of
property which is zoned partially Natural Area and partially
General Residential, could sell off the buildable portion, and
then apply for rezoning of the residue. This of course would
unleash a series of problems for the Township of Oro-Medonte!
In conclusion, we trust that this letter will be read at the
public hearing as it has been and that our concerns will be
thoughtfully considered by the Members of Council. In light of
all the above reasons, we trust that you will deny the
application for Rezoning. Yours sincerely, Richard C.E. Moore,
Joan W. Moore.
8
The Deputy Mayor then stated that those persons present would be
afforded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to the
proposed Amendment. He then turned the meeting over to Andria
Leigh, Development Co-ordinator, to explain the purpose and
effect of the proposed Zoning By-Law Amendment.
Andria Leigh:
Thank you Mr. Mayor. Obviously, we have fairly extensi ve
(inaudible) already on this property. As the Deputy Mayor has
indicated, the purpose of tonight's meeting is to obtain public
comments with respect to the proposed rezoning, prior to any
decisions being made by Council.
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Andria Leigh:
Just to go over, particularly for Councils benefit or anyone who
doesn't know the area (indicated on map) this the 4th Line of
Oro, the Ridge Road and this is Brambel Road that has been
referred to in the correspondence. The subj ect property is
highlighted in yellow, this is 5.4 acres that is being
discussed, this is the 30 ft. strip that was discussed in the
letter and Brambel Road.
8
This property was previously subject to a minor variance
application to the Committee of Adjustment in early 1996 and
that application was approved and then appealed by the
neighbours to the Ontario Municipal Board. Subsequent to that,
the Ontario Municipal Board asked the applicant to apply for the
rezoning as it was a condition of the Committee of Adjustment
and that is why we are here tonight with this application.
Basically, the Board has indicated that they wanted (inaudible)
to address the full application at the same time as (inaudible)
should that be necessary.
As you can see on the map here, there is a green line and
essentially everything (inaudible) is in a General Residential
zone and everything north of that is a Natural Area zone. The
property in fact has a split zoning with the 5.4 acres in the
Natural Area and the remainder of it in the General Residential
zone.
So, essentially what the proposal is for tonight is that the 5.4
acres presently Natural Area and rezoning that to a Site
Specific Natural Area Exception zone as opposed to General
Residential zone. The reason for the Site Specific Exception is
that there is a provision in the Zoning By-law right now that in
order to a build a single family dwelling on a property, the
lot had to have been (inaudible) prior to January 1, 1979.
What in fact happened is that this piece was on its own in 1979
and this piece was as well, it wasn't until March of 1996 that
all three of those pieces were merged by Mr. & Mrs. Kreis, so in
fact they don't meet that requirement and cannot get a building
permit right now for a single family dwelling on that property.
So the Site Specific Exception would waive that requirement to
allow the construction of one single family dwelling on the 5.4
acres. I think at that point in time, as I say, it is a
proposal at this point in time, so (inaudible)
Deputy Mayor:
Any questions or comments, please come to the mike and state
your name.
Peter Jarvis:
8
Good evening, my name is Peter Jarvis and I live in Plan 819.
I built a house down there 18 years ago and at that time, and I
think it still exists as a Plan 819 is a subdivision and the
road was intended for the people that bought lots within that
Plan. The property that we are talking about is not in that
plan but, whoever built a house in there expect to be able to
use our road. We pay for it and we maintain it on our own. I
think that anybody who builds within the Plan is entirely within
their rights to use that road but beyond that Plan, I don't
think so. I think that road is not for people outside the Plan,
you could extend it to the whole Natural zone if you went to the
extreme, that would be silly. But I think that we have to
consider that people are here tonight and the people beside that
are the people who pay for maintaining that road. Thank you.
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Deputy Mayor:
Anyone else?
Rick Moore:
8
Mr. Chairman. Just one other point I would like to make. Can
I draw your attention to the map. We own, I have trouble
(inaudible) we have this property and this property and this
along here (indicated on map) was a stand alone block and this
other part of the road was (inaudible) we acquired this part of
the road. This property, this property and this property here,
and we decided at some stage, I can't remember the date, we
decided that it would be, the prudent thing to do would be well
it didn't make any sense to have this piece of propert~ land
locked and (inaudible) and the only reason why I raise it,
number one, (inaudible), by the Township, we had no choice, that
is what we had to do, otherwise it would be landlocked. The
other interesting thing is that I happened to tell Mr. Schaefers
about this and he told me in a friendly way that I was short a
little change, (inaudible) what I didn't understand was that the
area was not going to be developed and that I was giving up an
opportunity to develop these properties. What I am only making,
the point is because it has always been the general intention to
develop this area in whatever fashion he could. It has always
been my intention, where it is zoned Natural area, to respect
that, as you can see and not have development running rampant.
I just wanted to make that point.
Is the overhead available, I think you have seen the picture.
Just let me show on the map on the overhead where the actual
erosion has taken place and where homes have been damaged.
Hubert Schaefers
8
You told the untruths to... the gentleman said that there was
swamp in there, ... ..there is no swamp at all here. It is even
heavy soil, there is good pine trees and pine trees don't grow
in swamps. Cedar and popular and.... but not pine trees, it is
not swamp it is very bumpy too, you never can farm,.... . they say
environment, environment, lots in front of it and the side
and the front, there is not yet house, there will be someday,
but to the right of it is all houses. How can 5.4 acres, one
house be environment dangerous then one or half acres. One that
told the untruth is, the Kreis bought that lot from us in 1980
or 81 and they established a limited company, normally not to
pay the 20% or 25% tax for foreigners, which then applied
because it was a recreation lot and a few years later, Kreis
didn't like to,... they paid the 20% tax to the government here
and came directly.... Yes, I was maybe in the limited company
before, president or whatever...... .but it was never our
company, it was their company,.. ..that is why they established
it at first because they were told from a lawyer, David
White.. .20% tax. So that is one of the main things. That law
is .... . and Kreis, yes they own Brambel Road, they bought three
years ago from Mrs. Mckellar, they owned for about 60 years or
so. But they assessed extra taxes. This extra taxes, I don't
know but you are wrong. I can read to you the decision from the
Committee of Adjustment, what they thought about it when they
granted it. If there is septic approval.
Andria Leigh:
Council is always provided copies of the decision of the
Committee of Adjustment, so they may not need to have that read
out. It was on your application and they have all received the
application as well. The sentence that you were talking about.
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Hubert Schaefers:
It only takes a minute. The application is deemed to maintain
the general intent and purpose of the Official Plan and Zoning
By-law, is deemed to be minor from the provisions of the
implement Zoning By-law and is considered desirable for the
appropriate use and development of the land. That was from the
Committee of Adjustment.
Deputy Mayor Martin:
Any questions from Council. Councillor Cotton?
8
Councillor Cotton:
Mr. Deputy Mayor, a couple of questions for Andria. Was there
any technical investigations carried out for these applications?
Andria Leigh:
On behalf of the municipality?
Councillor Cotton:
No, did the applicant provide any supporting documentation?
Andria Leigh:
No, no they did not.
Councillor Cotton:
So there has never been
possible impacts.
an
assessment
of
actual
area
and
Andria Leigh:
No there has not been.
Councillor Cotton:
Supplementary, the second question relates to the Official plan
for the former Township of Oro and the conformity. The
application we have before us tonight is just for a Zoning By-
law Amendment?
Andria Leigh:
Yes it is.
Councillor Cotton:
8
Have you reviewed the Official Plan and formed an opinion in
terms of whether the application conforms with the policies in
the Official Plan?
Andria Leigh:
Yes, I did review the Official Plan previously and then read it
again tonight. Based on the wording in the Official plan and
the Natural Area, I am satisfied that they do conform with the
Site Specific Natural Area rezoning.
Deputy Mayor Martin:
Further questions from Council? I have one question,
there is white pine in there and cedar?
you say
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Hubert Schaefers:
No, there is no cedar.
is very heavy soil.
they need the septic
a nice..... how can
houses on the north.
Maybe, ... . some jack pine, some ash. It
There is rock bed on there, that is why
beds raised up. There is no swamp, it is
it give more water from there then the
Like the people say.
Deputy Mayor Martin:
Thank you.
The gentleman in the back, please state your name.
8
Mike Qusen:
My name is Mike Heusen and I live on lot 32. I have the
misfortune to have the lowest lot on the Plan and consequently,
I suffer the problem with the drainage and it is getting worse
every year.
Firstly, I apologize for us all having to be here this evening.
This is the fourth time we have had a meeting concerning this.
At no point in time has the proposer ever been asked to
completely fill out the submissions correctly. None of the
submissions to the initial Committee of Adjustment or anything
else have been completely filled out and nobody has mentioned
why. Normally, when I make a proposal to the Township or for
anything else, building property or anything I do, everything
has to be completed. For some reason, this doesn't happen. We
have copies of the initial submissions and I am sure Andria
does. Secondly, is Andria the judge as to whether something
does comply with the Planning Act, or not. We have rules which
the Committee... .which were requested three times and we had to
remind the Committee first of all that the property adjacent to
the area and the people that live there have to be notified and
we were also given misleading information as to appeal times by
Andria. We were also not given the truth about some of the
applications points that were made. So consequently, I would
suggest that we all look at this from this standpoint and that
is that we are objecting to this, not from a personal
standpoint, but obj ecting to this from this, the fact that
submissions have not been made correctly, I do not understand
how a Committee of Adjustment can approve something which is not
submitted in a correct manner, in a timely manner, in fact, the
last time there was a meeting, the meeting had to be postponed
because of the fact that we objected to it and that most of the
people that were involved had not been informed. Correct?
Andria Leigh:
Yes, and we recirculated.
Mike Qusen:
8
And prior to that, I also say that Mr. Schaefer was given notice
that he had to have all of the Committee, all of the documents
for submission ready, deeds, the date, the same day of the
meeting and he showed up that day, even though there had been a
strike at civil service and we knew that everything had been
delayed time wise. We were never advised of that.
Andria Leigh:
Of the deeds with respect to the road?
referring to?
Is that what you are
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Mike Qusen:
The transfer, they were presented the morning of the meeting and
therefore,
Deputy Mayor Martin:
Andria, he is asking a question.
Andria Leigh:
8
I agree with him that
meeting.
they were
presented
the
day of
the
Mike Qusen:
According to the submission for the original proposal they
should have been handed to Councilor the Township when the
submission is made, not at the meeting, when the submission is
made, the meeting should not even be called unless you have the
documentation, am I correct?
Andria Leigh:
No, I don't necessarily agree with you on that point but that is
certainly your opinion.
Mike Qusen:
Okay, and today we find out that we are being told that in the
Committee of Adjustment's opinion, and Andria's opinion, that
this is in compliance with the Planning Act. Now we have had
legal submissions from your ex-lawyer, David White, at one of
the previous meetings and also from Mr. Graham, of Graham,
Wilson and Green who is a well respected lawyer in this area, to
say that this is not in anyway comply legally with the Planning
Act. How can Andria say it does?
Andria Leigh:
Just one point of clarification. Councillor Cotton asked me if
it complied with the Official Plan, he did not ask whether it
complied with the Planning Act or any other regulation. He was
solely dealing with the Official Plan.
Mike Qusen:
Well, according to the land use controls and related
administration rules, and this was in the Planning Act, you
can't say yes it does.
8
Andria Leigh:
But that was not the question he asked me.
the Official Plan.
He asked me about
Mike Qusen:
Let me correct mysel f , I don't intend to mince words,
intend to ask is does it comply with the Planning Act?
all I
Andria Leigh:
No because the rezoning has not been approved.
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Mike Qusen:
Which is more important, the Planning Act or the Official Plan?
Andria Leigh:
The Planning Act is the Province's guidelines and they have to
be in conformity with that and that is why they have applied for
the rezoning.
Mike Qusen:
8
Okay can I then ask the next question? Why is it everybody that
accept the proposal... .on what is going on?
Andria Leigh:
I am not sure I understand your question.
Mike Qusen:
Well, we are doing summersaults, we have legal opinion and doing
everything, we say, look, please look at this from the point of
view, the way it should be. All we are getting up until now is
lip service but.
Deputy Mayor Martin:
Ah, sir, No, address the Council. Make your statement.
Mike Qusen:
Okay, I am sorry. You can tell it is an emotional issue and
property. Our properties get washed away on a regular basis and
have been. So all we are saying to you is as a resident and tax
payer, is, here is, can you please look at this from the point
of view of the Planning Act? That is what we are all suppose to
do and also to agreeable development.
I cannot go and buy a five acre parcel in the middle of
anybody's farm and go to you and say, I want to build a house
there. This is essentially what has been done here.
Thank you.
Deputy Mayor Martin:
Anyone else, please come forward and state your name.
David Palmateer:
8
My name is David Palmateer and I built my home in Plan 819 in
1975. That is 21 years ago. We have had flooding twice in the
last 18 months. We had none in the first 20 years. That is
right, Ron built it.
Some of the things I am going to say to you, you have probably
already heard. But Mr. Kreis or Kreis, I am not sure how it is
pronounced, does not live in Plan 819 or Oro-Medonte, or even in
Canada. As an absentee landlord, his request for a change in
the Zoning By-law seems to be based on the fact that he has paid
one years taxes on Block A. I believe that tax bill was less
than $300.00, otherwise known as Brambel Road, so that he can
make a profit on land presently designated as Natural Area and
outside of Plan 819. I don't believe that he has any intention
to take up residence on the subject lands, further I request a
feasibility, I question the feasibility of an absentee landlord
going to such considerable lengths over a period of more than 10
years for the purpose of building one home, only, on five acres
of landlocked land. I suspect that if this rezoning request is
- 11 -
8
approved, it will be a so called foot in the door and would
subsequently lead to further requests and an attempt at more
extensive development. This rezoning application is opposed by
virtually all of the residents of Plan 819. This group of
longtime permanent Oro-Medonte residents contributes in excess
of $ 5 0, 000 . 00 each and every year of property taxes to the
coffers of this Township. What possible, logical reason can
there be to disregard the wishes of this group of valued
citizens, and change the rules of the game in order to
facili tate the ambitions of Mr. Kreis, or to extricate Mr.
Schaefers from a difficult situation of his own making and I
like, Mr. Heusen, wonder why we are back here for the fourth
time dealing with the same problem. I first spoke to this issue
in either 1983 or 1985, his application was turned down at that
time and now we are back here 11 years later or 12 years later
doing it allover again. Thank you.
Deputy Mayor Martin:
Any questions from Council at this time?
Any further questions from, Madam C.A.O.?
Jennifer Zieleniewski:
Just a comment maybe, Mr. Chairman, members of Council.
I resent maybe some of the innuendos that were made here tonight
because I believe that Ms. Leigh treats all tax payers with
respect and awards all applicants with the same amount of time
and effort that she would on any application at all. If this
application has been here 12 years ago, I mean we look at it as
if it is today. So please understand that she does award the
same time, the same effort to any applicant, if she agrees or
doesn't agree with it.
Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Mayor Beard:
Yes, I was a little bit up set with some of the comments and
remarks and I think I would like to add to add to the sentiments
of our C.A.O., that we will deal with issues fairly and
impartially and (inaudible) I do resent some of the comments
and questions asked to Ms. Leigh (inaudible) she does a good job
and (inaudible).
Councillor Cotton:
8
Yes Mr. Deputy Mayor, maybe as a point of clarification to Mr.
(inaudible) and Mr. Palmateer's comments. We are here tonight
as a requirement of the Ontario Municipal Board. They have
asked us to look at an application to rezone on this property.
That is a right the Board has as acting as a Provincial
authority and as a result, we are here just in a public meeting
format. This is not the meeting in which decision are already
made on, it is to hear the evidence. So, I just want you to
appreciate the position we are in. We are a captive audience of
the Ontario Municipal Board at this point in time so that the
Board can get on with making a decision in a comprehensive
manner on the minor variance and the zoning by-law amendment.
Hubert Schaefers:
Mr. Palmateer talked about who owned the land and make a profit.
He paid the 20% taxes because he got out of the limited company
he owned and paid 20%. Why is it then sometime the top
provincial government and the federal government go to foreign
countries to get foreigners to invest here which they do. Many
times they do (inaudible)
- 12 -
Mrs. Moore:
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I just wanted to point out about what Mr. Schaefers is saying
that, taking out of a limited company of which he was the
president. It was not taken out of it, it was sold from a
limited company of which he was the president and what was sold
was not just this 5 acres but in fact the 5 acres plus lot 27
and I just have a copy and you might like to keep it in mind
that the Kreis's when they purchased the 5.4 acres, they owned
lot 27 and a unlimited company that Mr. Schaefers has referred
to that he was the president of and implies that in fact, he was
he was only a figure head or something, I am just not clear
about that. That limited company obtained this lot, this 5.4
acres was previously owned by Mr. Schaefers and his wife. They
sold it to a limited company. It is a very convoluted,
confusing kind of transfer but in fact not quite that straight
forward. The other thing that I just wanted to point out was
that Ontario Municipal Board has received an appeal on the minor
variance and because they did so, they would not consider it
until, Mr. Schaefers, on behalf of the Kreis' would or would not
continue to pursue a rezoning, as I understand it. I don't
think, in fact, they were directing Mr. Schaefers to apply for
the rezoning so much as they were notifying him that they would
put the appeal in abeyance pending what they determined to do.
I just wanted to make it clear that there was no direction from
the OMB to, that this has to be continued, it was entirely in
his hands and here is a notice from the OMB. I just want you to
read the highlighted part, this is a letter to Mr. Schaefers and
it just notifies them that they will not do anything at all and
they be sure happy to just see the whole thing die.... It says
this is not to be construed as a direction from the board but an
amendment should be granted by the local authority that it
should just be considered in its merits. Thank you.
Deputy Mayor Martin:
Anyone else who has not had a chance to speak yet?
Andria Leigh:
Just a point of clarification. She had indicated that they
weren't directing the applicant to make the application. They
do direct him to make the rezoning application. But you are
correct, they don't say that the local authority has to grant
it.
Mrs. Moore:
I actually phoned the OMB on that point in particular and
what is your position, I spoke to Mike Miller, the
(inaudible) and he said it is not a direction to him per se
it is not a direction, it does not include the possibility
he can choose to drop the issue.
said
OMB
but,
that
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Andria Leigh:
That is right. It is just that they clearly say that you should
make the required application, so it is up to him to decide
whether he wants to do that but it was their direction that he
should make the application.
Hubert Schaefers:
The lot 27 that Kreis owned and sold it off years ago. Totally
legal lot, it does not need a severance on that, so since when
people not can sell lot off. Before, someone said here, Mr.
Moore, (inaudible) the Kreis to develop their own property,
only for, I don't call that much development here. In Barrie
they put today on one acre, 6 units, that is a fact.
- 13 -
Deputy Mayor Martin:
Just so I can clearly orient myself, lot 29 and 30 is Moore's?
and you own up parallel to the land in question?
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There being no further questions or comments, when being called
for the third time, the Deputy Mayor in closing the meeting,
thanked those in attendance for their participation and advised
that Council would consider all matters before reaching a
decision. He then advised those present that if they wished to
be notified of the passing of the proposed By-law, they should
leave their name and address with the Clerk.
MOTION NO.1
Moved by Beard, seconded by Bell
Be it resolved that this Special Public Meeting of Council
(Conc. 4, Part Lot 28 (Oro) now be adjourned at 8:21 p.m.
Carried.
DEPUTY MA 0
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