06 05 1996 Sp Public MinutesE
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SPECIAL PUBLIC RENTING
VEDWMAYt JUNE St 1996 0 7200 P.M. - COUNCIL CM3MERS
83VENTY-SECOND MEETING 1994-1997 COUNCIL
The following members of Council were present:
Absent:
Staff Present:
Also Present Were:
(P32/94)
Mayor Ian Beard
Deputy Mayor Murray Martin
Councillor Don Bell
Councillor Neil Craig
Councillor Ron Sommers
Councillor Walter Dickie
Councillor Larry Cotton
Andria Leigh, Development Co-
ordinator.
Shirley Woodrow, Bruce Hicks,
David Knox, Earl Robertson,
Jolanta Barcicki, Matthew
Barcicki, Daniel Barcicki, Witold
Barcicki, M. Barcicki, Maria
Kunpiewski, Robert Barcicki,
Caroline Barcicki, Marshall
Green, Ann McIntyre, Tom
McIntyre.
Mayor Ian Beard chaired the meeting.
Mayor Ian Beard opened the meeting by explaining to those
present that this Public Meeting was to receive public comments
with respect to a proposed Official Plan Amendment, under
provisions of Sections 17 and 22, of the Planning Act. The
applicant has applied to redesignate "Special Policy Area No. 111
former Township of Oro, The proposed Official Plan Amendment
would amend Official Plan Amendment No. 22, redesignate the site
and expand the area to be designated Special Policy Area No. 1,
thereby expanding the area to be used for the temporary special
events park.
To date, the Council of the Corporation of the Township of Oro-
Medonte have not made a decision on this application, other than
proceeding to this Public Meeting. Only after comments are
received from the Public, requested agencies and Township Staff,
within the appropriate time period, will Council make a decision
on this application.
Notice of the Public Meeting was mailed out on May 9, 1996, to
all property owners within 400 feet of the subject lands. Notice
of the Public Meeting was also placed in both the Barrie
Examiner and Orillia Packet and Times on May 9, 1996.
Mayor Beard then asked the Clerk if there had been any
correspondence received on this matter. The Clerk responded by
indicating that correspondence was received from the Simcoe
County Health Unit indicating they had no objection to the
application. correspondence was also received from the Ministry
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of Transportation which was address to Fred Haughton, stating as
follows: The ministry has completed its review of geometrics at
the intersection of Highway 11 and the 8th Concession and
provide the following comments.
The existing deceleration and acceleration lanes on Highway 11
at the 8th Concession meet with our current geometric standards.
Therefore, no additional highway improvements are required by
the owner. The present intersection can handle the increased
traffic proposed by Burl's Creek Family Event Park.
However, the ministry is concerned with the location of Gate #2,
as it is located only 110 m from Highway 11. We recommend that
its usage as a main gate be exchanged for Gate #3 to avoid
possible backups onto Highway 11 during peak arrival times.
Based on the above, the ministry will no longer request a
traffic impact study from the owner.
I trust this meets with your approval. Should you have any
questions, please contact our office. The correspondence was
signed by Ken Teasdale, Corridor Control Technician.
The Mayor then stated that those persons present would be
afforded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to the
proposed Amendment. He then turned the meeting over to the
Andria Leigh, Development Co-ordinator to explain the purpose
and effect of the proposed Official Plan Amendment.
Andria Leigh:
Thank you Mr. Mayor, as the Mayor has indicated, the purpose of
tonight's meeting is to obtain public comments with respect to
an Official Plan Amendment. This application did proceed to a
public meeting on the 20th of March, earlier this year but there
was a technicality with respect to the notification under the
Planning Act and it was felt that a second public meeting should
be held at this point in time.
The proposed Official Plan would both extend the site area to be
used for special event purposes and the different types of uses.
I will just indicate the area of the proposed amendment is off
Highway 11 on the 8th Line of the former Oro Township. The
existing site at the present time is basically this area
(indicated on map) is being used as an area in this location is
presently designated "Special Policy Area", and expanding it to
include the whole area within the diagonal line. Basically, the
only areas that will be excluded would be the Environmental
Protection and Woodlot areas to the creek and the woodlot area
at the front of the property.
In terms of the expansion of the uses, presently there are three
permitted uses in the Special Policy Area, agricultural uses,
automotive flea markets and other special temporary events and
concession booths and overnight camping with respect to those
temporary events.
The proposed uses for the new official Plan Amendment are a
little more lengthy, there is approximately eight of them and
they still include agricultural uses and agricultural fair and
antique show, an automotive flea market, a boat show, a craft
and hobby show, country festival, highland games and an old car
sales an auctions, a vehicle show and accessory uses of
structures including the concession booths and overnight camping
in conjunction with the permitted special events. So, it is a
longer list and that is within the proposed Draft OPA document
which is available in the Township office for viewing by the
public.
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This site comprises of approximately 94 acres out of the
applicants approximate 112 total ownership and the rest of the
property is made up of the environmental protection property.
Andria Leigh:
At this point in time, there is also a zoning by-law amendment
that has been before Council for a public meeting which was
October 19, 1994 and is sort of in conjunction with this but not
part of the public meeting at this point in time. The permitted
uses under that draft by-law are available for viewing and they
do conform with the Official Plan that is proposed.
Indication of the different uses for the Policy Area are shown
on here (indicated on map) and there is a plan on the back that
I will perhaps turn over and indicate where the parking area is
for this presentation. Unfortunately, with this map, I will
just get you oriented a little bit for direction, we are
actually looking at this as highway 11 here and this is the 8th
Concession Line. Right now, this is the existing Special Policy
Area. The proposal is to expand it within the rest of this area
and there are three parking areas within the site in this
location. This is the environmental pond area that would not be
put within the Special Policy Area and then the three ponds at
the back of the property at that location.
At this point in time I think we will turn it back to the Mayor
and we will look for some public comment on this proposal.
Mayor Beard:
What we would like to do now is have questions from anyone who
wishes. We would ask you to come forward and speak into the
mike and state their name because this meeting is being recorded
so that we can have an accurate record of the meeting. So if
anyone has any questions would they please come forward at this
time.
Marshall Green:
Mr. Rogers isn't here tonight so I guess he is fairly confident.
I thank first of all, Ms. Leigh, since the last time I was here,
she has provided me with a lot of information that I didn't have
originally and I have been able to update myself quite
satisfactorily, I think on where things have gone. I did file
a letter, I mailed a letter and I believe I did not send it to
the Clerk so I guess that is why it did not get read, but I
would like the opportunity to put it on the record tonight, at
least an overview, so you can hear the concerns that we continue
to have with this proposal. If I can also say just a couple of
words by way of history and one of the reasons why Dr. and Mrs.
McIntyre continue to be concerned about the proposal. I guess,
looking around the room, besides Dr. and Mrs. McIntyre and of
course Mr. Hanney isn't here tonight so I guess that I am
probably going to be the only one besides the McIntyres who have
the full history of this since I was at the OMB Hearing the last
time. That plan was before the OMB Hearing and although you
probably don't remember or weren't there, you may not have been
filled in entirely on what happened but after a fairly lengthy
and very expensive hearing, the residents paid for, Mr. Kelly
the OMB Chairman, more or less forced that site plan down our
throats by telling everybody that there would be plenty of
detection because he was going to put that site plan right into
the zoning by-law and everybody said, well if that is the best
we can do than that is the best we can do and Mr. Hanney said
don't worry, we will live by that with lots of funding that is
there but don't worry, we will live by that and of course what
we know is that immediately thereafter he hired Mr. Rogers who
successfully challenged the fact that you can't put a site plan
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Marshall Green:
and attach it to a zoning by -law. He took that all the way to,
I believe, The Court of Appeal and was successful in
establishing that Mr. Hanney, the site plan that he agreed, he
wasn't legally bound to and he wasn't going to be bound by it.
That prepossess a few of my concerns and I hope you understand
a little of why the McIntyre's are a little bit concerned that
all is be dotted and all is be crossed before they say okay,
we will live with it.
Having given you that little bit of history, let me just point
out the concerns that we continue to have and then I will zoom
in a little bit on that site plan.
First of all, we have a concern about noise. Dr. and Mrs.
McIntyre indicate to me that at the last event or last couple of
events for instance, helicopters have been used as one of the
attractions at the show. When I went through the material in
the Township file. I saw nothing about a noise study being
asked for or being produced. It appears to me that when you
have a major event park, that is in a quiet rural setting, one
of the first things you would want to do is examine what are the
noise impacts? What is the background ambience? What are the
potential receptors of that noise and how are you going to
protect the people who have a right to some quiet, from that
noise? Nothing appears in the file about noise.
The second issue, parking. I will deal with that again in a
little more detail in a second but the parking was one of the
major concerns at the OMB Hearing. This plan of course, is the
one that was produced at the OMB Hearing. I might as well deal
with it right now. Again, it is causing a little bit of
problem, as Andria said, it is sort of turned around. But here
(indicated on map) is your parking area, one, two and three. If
you have a look when you flip the map around, there appears to
be a wide band that comes almost equal to Shambles Restaurant
Property, that isn't in the event park designation it is still
in agricultural and one of the complaints we had at the OMB last
time was how do you park or how do you use agricultural land for
parking. So, even the parking is here, it appears to have a
large band that won't be in the right designation. A large
amount of parking will be parking on agricultural land.
Councillor Craig may be aware, but I had concerns at the OMB
Hearing as to how you park cars that back out to a hay field and
then you still use it as a perennial hay field. However, that
has been designated for events park so I guess that can be done.
The major concern though, was because, when we went to the OMB
Hearing, all of this was designated or shown as to be the event
fields. When we had a look at what was available for parking,
everybody admitted that "gee whiz, we are not going to have
enough parking for the number of booths we are going to have."
So that is when they sort of took this out and made this all
sort of fuzzy (indicated on map) future, parking. Well, my
understanding is that they have been using part of this field
anyway even though it is marked as being a sort of future use.
However, even though that is not being shown yet, and even
though they are using all the parking here including the parking
that is suppose to be agriculture, they don't have enough
parking. They are using parking across the street, they are
renting parking from other peoples fields.
According to the Planning Act, they should not be parking on
land that isn't zoned or designated for parking (a), and (b) if
they are leasing the land for purposes of parking, they have not
right to a lease of more than 21 years and if you are
establishing a facility here, that in essence is forever,
because you are not putting a time limit on it. They should
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Marshall Green:
make sure they have the right amount of parking forever. if
they are leasing it on a year by year basis that shouldn't be
satisfactory. You should be concerned about the fact that next
year those people that are now letting that land be used for
parking change their mind. Where do the cars go after that?
It seems the MTO seems to be as happy as anything with the
access on and off the Highway 11. 1 think though that the
Township should be a little bit concerned about what happens
down the 8th Concession, down to the Ridge Road. I have pointed
out in time and I point it out again that there is no way, there
is absolutely no way you are going to barr people from going up
and down the 8th Line from coming in off the Ridge Road. As
long as you can't barr people, what it means is that there is
going to be a lot of traffic going up and down the 8th Line, a
road that is not properly surfaced. Which means that dust,
dirt, gravel, will be thrown up all around those neighbours.
Cumulative effects. Obviously, if I was the owner of the Barrie
Speedway, I would be the first one also, sitting down with the
owners of the event park and saying, whatever weekend you are
going to have events, I am going to plan events too. Why not
try to do it together. No one has had a look at the cumulative
effect of that will be. It already happens on the weekends that
the auto show goes on. The speedway gears up their activity.
Again, cumulative effects of parking, noise, traffic, no one has
looked yet, I think from what I can see in the file at those
potential cumulative effects.
There are also a few other holes in the by-law that I would like
to point out to your attention as well. Country Festival, what
is a Country Festival? Mr. Rogers, when I raised that to him,
I said, will there be music involved? He said, well there may
very well be as part of a festival, but don't worry, there will
be no rock music and there will be no heavy metal music as that
is not being allowed under the by-law. Does someone here want
to give me a definition of country music vs. rock music? There
is light rock, country rock, folk rock, invariably, there is
going to be amplification equipment so that a large number of
people across that whole site can listen to the music.
I went to the Rankin Family concert at Molson Arena on the
weekend and that music, in that closed facility was so loud that
the Rankin Family members were wearing earphones so they could
hear each other sing. When you have got a huge or open field
and you are booming it across with amplification equipment, you
are going to hear it up and down that road. I have sat on the
patio at the McIntyre's and listened, I can tell you when the
cars are starting to go at the Barrie Speedway. You will be
able to sing along with the music and sit out by the McIntyre's
patio, I can assure you as soon as that amplification equipment
gets in there. No one has looked to define what that, what a
Country Festival will entail, and no one has looked at the noise
effects and no one has looked at the cumulative noise effects
when you add the arena, the speedway to the park.
The last thing that I wanted to say, although I know it is not
a requirement, I know that if this matter ends up before the
Ontario Municipal Board, they will be very upset, if in fact
this area which has now been, I understand, declared an area of
site plan control, if in fact, the Board is not getting a chance
to have a look at the site plans as well. As I said, there is
no requirement because Dr. and Mrs. McInyre have absolutely no
right to be involved in the site planning, that is under the
Planning Act, they have no say in that. But, from my experience
at the OMB, when they know this is an area of site plan control
and they know that they have got this far with the details of
planning it, they are going want to see what the site plan is.
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I think you should want to see what the site plan is too. I
think you should want to see what is going to go on the grey
area in the middle that is marked for future use. I think you
should want to see how many parking spaces they are going to
fill in, in those temporary parking areas/perennial hayfields.
I think you want to develop some kind of standard so that some
how the number of parking spaces should relate to the number of
booths they are having so that you can tell that mystical area
in between becomes vendors booths, you can tell them, okay for
every vendors booth you have, you need five parks, maybe that is
the formula you work out. And, they should be able to tell you
how many cars they are going to fit in there, now, allowing for
laneways, allowing for driveways, allowing for turnarounds and
they should be able to provide you with a firm idea of where the
rest of the parking is going to come from. You should have a
site plan now. It should be put before the public even though
it is not their right to see it. I know in the municipalities
that I act for and the developers that I act for, it * is with
great chagrin when municipalities traditionally always say,
sorry we all went to our ratepayers to let them see what the
site plan is going to be.
There are a heck of a lot of questions that are still unanswered
on this proposal. I know, and you know that I know, that you
people are somewhat at an disadvantaged position because of how
this proposal came to you, as part of a settlement of some
litigation, but you know as well that your lawyers were very
careful in drafting that settlement so that you were not going
to have your hands tied, that you could look at this freely,
openly and completely. I think you owe it to the ratepayers,
you owe it to the McIntyrels, you owe it to yourselves to make
sure that it is the best possible plan. The Boy Scouts, the
Lions, everybody wants to have this there because it is a
wonderful opportunity to fundraise, but I think you as the
elected representatives of the municipality, want not just a
fundraising facility, you want the best fundraising facility.
I think what you are doing here is you are buying yourself a
whole bunch of unknown headaches. I hope you will send this
back, I will be pleased to send you a complete list of the
things that I think should be done. I have already provided
Andria with a list of issues, but I would also be very pleased
to present you with a list of how I think you can make this an
awful lot better, if you would take somemore time and willing to
demand a little bit more of the proponent.
Any questions?
Mayor Beard:
Does anyone have any questions of Mr. Green?
Thank you Mr. Green, are there any further questions or comments
on this issue?
Andria Leigh:
Thank you Mr. Mayor. I am in receipt of Mr. Green's letter and
unfortunately, I have been away at a conference for the last
couple of days, so I reviewed it this morning and I think there
are certain issues that I can certainly get back to Council and
Mr. Green about that he wanted to look further into with respect
to the parking and the noise. There are issues that I know have
been addressed with some degree in the file and I can provide
that back to Council but at this point in time, I am not in a
position with respect to the noise aspect of it. The
municipality does not have a noise by-law at this point in time,
so no property is subject to a noise by-law. I just add that
note for Council's information.
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There being no further questions or comments, when being called
for the third time, the Mayor in closing the meeting, thanked
those in attendance for their participation and advised that
Council would consider all matters before reaching a decision.
He then advised those present that if they wished to be notified
of the passing of the proposed By-law, they should leave their
name and address with the Clerk.
MOTION NO. 1
Moved by Martin, seconded by Bell
Be it resolved that this Special Public Meeting of Council
(Special Policy Area No. 1 of OPA No. 22, formerly Township of
Oro) now be adjourned at 7:27 p.m.
MAYOR IAN BEARD CLERK LYNDA AIKEN
Carried.