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06 05 1996 Sp Public MinutesE E • 4 ; 0 . • I - • • • SPECIAL PUBLIC RENTING VEDWMAYt JUNE St 1996 0 7200 P.M. - COUNCIL CM3MERS 83VENTY-SECOND MEETING 1994-1997 COUNCIL The following members of Council were present: Absent: Staff Present: Also Present Were: (P32/94) Mayor Ian Beard Deputy Mayor Murray Martin Councillor Don Bell Councillor Neil Craig Councillor Ron Sommers Councillor Walter Dickie Councillor Larry Cotton Andria Leigh, Development Co- ordinator. Shirley Woodrow, Bruce Hicks, David Knox, Earl Robertson, Jolanta Barcicki, Matthew Barcicki, Daniel Barcicki, Witold Barcicki, M. Barcicki, Maria Kunpiewski, Robert Barcicki, Caroline Barcicki, Marshall Green, Ann McIntyre, Tom McIntyre. Mayor Ian Beard chaired the meeting. Mayor Ian Beard opened the meeting by explaining to those present that this Public Meeting was to receive public comments with respect to a proposed Official Plan Amendment, under provisions of Sections 17 and 22, of the Planning Act. The applicant has applied to redesignate "Special Policy Area No. 111 former Township of Oro, The proposed Official Plan Amendment would amend Official Plan Amendment No. 22, redesignate the site and expand the area to be designated Special Policy Area No. 1, thereby expanding the area to be used for the temporary special events park. To date, the Council of the Corporation of the Township of Oro- Medonte have not made a decision on this application, other than proceeding to this Public Meeting. Only after comments are received from the Public, requested agencies and Township Staff, within the appropriate time period, will Council make a decision on this application. Notice of the Public Meeting was mailed out on May 9, 1996, to all property owners within 400 feet of the subject lands. Notice of the Public Meeting was also placed in both the Barrie Examiner and Orillia Packet and Times on May 9, 1996. Mayor Beard then asked the Clerk if there had been any correspondence received on this matter. The Clerk responded by indicating that correspondence was received from the Simcoe County Health Unit indicating they had no objection to the application. correspondence was also received from the Ministry U C1 of Transportation which was address to Fred Haughton, stating as follows: The ministry has completed its review of geometrics at the intersection of Highway 11 and the 8th Concession and provide the following comments. The existing deceleration and acceleration lanes on Highway 11 at the 8th Concession meet with our current geometric standards. Therefore, no additional highway improvements are required by the owner. The present intersection can handle the increased traffic proposed by Burl's Creek Family Event Park. However, the ministry is concerned with the location of Gate #2, as it is located only 110 m from Highway 11. We recommend that its usage as a main gate be exchanged for Gate #3 to avoid possible backups onto Highway 11 during peak arrival times. Based on the above, the ministry will no longer request a traffic impact study from the owner. I trust this meets with your approval. Should you have any questions, please contact our office. The correspondence was signed by Ken Teasdale, Corridor Control Technician. The Mayor then stated that those persons present would be afforded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to the proposed Amendment. He then turned the meeting over to the Andria Leigh, Development Co-ordinator to explain the purpose and effect of the proposed Official Plan Amendment. Andria Leigh: Thank you Mr. Mayor, as the Mayor has indicated, the purpose of tonight's meeting is to obtain public comments with respect to an Official Plan Amendment. This application did proceed to a public meeting on the 20th of March, earlier this year but there was a technicality with respect to the notification under the Planning Act and it was felt that a second public meeting should be held at this point in time. The proposed Official Plan would both extend the site area to be used for special event purposes and the different types of uses. I will just indicate the area of the proposed amendment is off Highway 11 on the 8th Line of the former Oro Township. The existing site at the present time is basically this area (indicated on map) is being used as an area in this location is presently designated "Special Policy Area", and expanding it to include the whole area within the diagonal line. Basically, the only areas that will be excluded would be the Environmental Protection and Woodlot areas to the creek and the woodlot area at the front of the property. In terms of the expansion of the uses, presently there are three permitted uses in the Special Policy Area, agricultural uses, automotive flea markets and other special temporary events and concession booths and overnight camping with respect to those temporary events. The proposed uses for the new official Plan Amendment are a little more lengthy, there is approximately eight of them and they still include agricultural uses and agricultural fair and antique show, an automotive flea market, a boat show, a craft and hobby show, country festival, highland games and an old car sales an auctions, a vehicle show and accessory uses of structures including the concession booths and overnight camping in conjunction with the permitted special events. So, it is a longer list and that is within the proposed Draft OPA document which is available in the Township office for viewing by the public. U E - 3 - This site comprises of approximately 94 acres out of the applicants approximate 112 total ownership and the rest of the property is made up of the environmental protection property. Andria Leigh: At this point in time, there is also a zoning by-law amendment that has been before Council for a public meeting which was October 19, 1994 and is sort of in conjunction with this but not part of the public meeting at this point in time. The permitted uses under that draft by-law are available for viewing and they do conform with the Official Plan that is proposed. Indication of the different uses for the Policy Area are shown on here (indicated on map) and there is a plan on the back that I will perhaps turn over and indicate where the parking area is for this presentation. Unfortunately, with this map, I will just get you oriented a little bit for direction, we are actually looking at this as highway 11 here and this is the 8th Concession Line. Right now, this is the existing Special Policy Area. The proposal is to expand it within the rest of this area and there are three parking areas within the site in this location. This is the environmental pond area that would not be put within the Special Policy Area and then the three ponds at the back of the property at that location. At this point in time I think we will turn it back to the Mayor and we will look for some public comment on this proposal. Mayor Beard: What we would like to do now is have questions from anyone who wishes. We would ask you to come forward and speak into the mike and state their name because this meeting is being recorded so that we can have an accurate record of the meeting. So if anyone has any questions would they please come forward at this time. Marshall Green: Mr. Rogers isn't here tonight so I guess he is fairly confident. I thank first of all, Ms. Leigh, since the last time I was here, she has provided me with a lot of information that I didn't have originally and I have been able to update myself quite satisfactorily, I think on where things have gone. I did file a letter, I mailed a letter and I believe I did not send it to the Clerk so I guess that is why it did not get read, but I would like the opportunity to put it on the record tonight, at least an overview, so you can hear the concerns that we continue to have with this proposal. If I can also say just a couple of words by way of history and one of the reasons why Dr. and Mrs. McIntyre continue to be concerned about the proposal. I guess, looking around the room, besides Dr. and Mrs. McIntyre and of course Mr. Hanney isn't here tonight so I guess that I am probably going to be the only one besides the McIntyres who have the full history of this since I was at the OMB Hearing the last time. That plan was before the OMB Hearing and although you probably don't remember or weren't there, you may not have been filled in entirely on what happened but after a fairly lengthy and very expensive hearing, the residents paid for, Mr. Kelly the OMB Chairman, more or less forced that site plan down our throats by telling everybody that there would be plenty of detection because he was going to put that site plan right into the zoning by-law and everybody said, well if that is the best we can do than that is the best we can do and Mr. Hanney said don't worry, we will live by that with lots of funding that is there but don't worry, we will live by that and of course what we know is that immediately thereafter he hired Mr. Rogers who successfully challenged the fact that you can't put a site plan LJ - 4 - Marshall Green: and attach it to a zoning by -law. He took that all the way to, I believe, The Court of Appeal and was successful in establishing that Mr. Hanney, the site plan that he agreed, he wasn't legally bound to and he wasn't going to be bound by it. That prepossess a few of my concerns and I hope you understand a little of why the McIntyre's are a little bit concerned that all is be dotted and all is be crossed before they say okay, we will live with it. Having given you that little bit of history, let me just point out the concerns that we continue to have and then I will zoom in a little bit on that site plan. First of all, we have a concern about noise. Dr. and Mrs. McIntyre indicate to me that at the last event or last couple of events for instance, helicopters have been used as one of the attractions at the show. When I went through the material in the Township file. I saw nothing about a noise study being asked for or being produced. It appears to me that when you have a major event park, that is in a quiet rural setting, one of the first things you would want to do is examine what are the noise impacts? What is the background ambience? What are the potential receptors of that noise and how are you going to protect the people who have a right to some quiet, from that noise? Nothing appears in the file about noise. The second issue, parking. I will deal with that again in a little more detail in a second but the parking was one of the major concerns at the OMB Hearing. This plan of course, is the one that was produced at the OMB Hearing. I might as well deal with it right now. Again, it is causing a little bit of problem, as Andria said, it is sort of turned around. But here (indicated on map) is your parking area, one, two and three. If you have a look when you flip the map around, there appears to be a wide band that comes almost equal to Shambles Restaurant Property, that isn't in the event park designation it is still in agricultural and one of the complaints we had at the OMB last time was how do you park or how do you use agricultural land for parking. So, even the parking is here, it appears to have a large band that won't be in the right designation. A large amount of parking will be parking on agricultural land. Councillor Craig may be aware, but I had concerns at the OMB Hearing as to how you park cars that back out to a hay field and then you still use it as a perennial hay field. However, that has been designated for events park so I guess that can be done. The major concern though, was because, when we went to the OMB Hearing, all of this was designated or shown as to be the event fields. When we had a look at what was available for parking, everybody admitted that "gee whiz, we are not going to have enough parking for the number of booths we are going to have." So that is when they sort of took this out and made this all sort of fuzzy (indicated on map) future, parking. Well, my understanding is that they have been using part of this field anyway even though it is marked as being a sort of future use. However, even though that is not being shown yet, and even though they are using all the parking here including the parking that is suppose to be agriculture, they don't have enough parking. They are using parking across the street, they are renting parking from other peoples fields. According to the Planning Act, they should not be parking on land that isn't zoned or designated for parking (a), and (b) if they are leasing the land for purposes of parking, they have not right to a lease of more than 21 years and if you are establishing a facility here, that in essence is forever, because you are not putting a time limit on it. They should U E Marshall Green: make sure they have the right amount of parking forever. if they are leasing it on a year by year basis that shouldn't be satisfactory. You should be concerned about the fact that next year those people that are now letting that land be used for parking change their mind. Where do the cars go after that? It seems the MTO seems to be as happy as anything with the access on and off the Highway 11. 1 think though that the Township should be a little bit concerned about what happens down the 8th Concession, down to the Ridge Road. I have pointed out in time and I point it out again that there is no way, there is absolutely no way you are going to barr people from going up and down the 8th Line from coming in off the Ridge Road. As long as you can't barr people, what it means is that there is going to be a lot of traffic going up and down the 8th Line, a road that is not properly surfaced. Which means that dust, dirt, gravel, will be thrown up all around those neighbours. Cumulative effects. Obviously, if I was the owner of the Barrie Speedway, I would be the first one also, sitting down with the owners of the event park and saying, whatever weekend you are going to have events, I am going to plan events too. Why not try to do it together. No one has had a look at the cumulative effect of that will be. It already happens on the weekends that the auto show goes on. The speedway gears up their activity. Again, cumulative effects of parking, noise, traffic, no one has looked yet, I think from what I can see in the file at those potential cumulative effects. There are also a few other holes in the by-law that I would like to point out to your attention as well. Country Festival, what is a Country Festival? Mr. Rogers, when I raised that to him, I said, will there be music involved? He said, well there may very well be as part of a festival, but don't worry, there will be no rock music and there will be no heavy metal music as that is not being allowed under the by-law. Does someone here want to give me a definition of country music vs. rock music? There is light rock, country rock, folk rock, invariably, there is going to be amplification equipment so that a large number of people across that whole site can listen to the music. I went to the Rankin Family concert at Molson Arena on the weekend and that music, in that closed facility was so loud that the Rankin Family members were wearing earphones so they could hear each other sing. When you have got a huge or open field and you are booming it across with amplification equipment, you are going to hear it up and down that road. I have sat on the patio at the McIntyre's and listened, I can tell you when the cars are starting to go at the Barrie Speedway. You will be able to sing along with the music and sit out by the McIntyre's patio, I can assure you as soon as that amplification equipment gets in there. No one has looked to define what that, what a Country Festival will entail, and no one has looked at the noise effects and no one has looked at the cumulative noise effects when you add the arena, the speedway to the park. The last thing that I wanted to say, although I know it is not a requirement, I know that if this matter ends up before the Ontario Municipal Board, they will be very upset, if in fact this area which has now been, I understand, declared an area of site plan control, if in fact, the Board is not getting a chance to have a look at the site plans as well. As I said, there is no requirement because Dr. and Mrs. McInyre have absolutely no right to be involved in the site planning, that is under the Planning Act, they have no say in that. But, from my experience at the OMB, when they know this is an area of site plan control and they know that they have got this far with the details of planning it, they are going want to see what the site plan is. U U I think you should want to see what the site plan is too. I think you should want to see what is going to go on the grey area in the middle that is marked for future use. I think you should want to see how many parking spaces they are going to fill in, in those temporary parking areas/perennial hayfields. I think you want to develop some kind of standard so that some how the number of parking spaces should relate to the number of booths they are having so that you can tell that mystical area in between becomes vendors booths, you can tell them, okay for every vendors booth you have, you need five parks, maybe that is the formula you work out. And, they should be able to tell you how many cars they are going to fit in there, now, allowing for laneways, allowing for driveways, allowing for turnarounds and they should be able to provide you with a firm idea of where the rest of the parking is going to come from. You should have a site plan now. It should be put before the public even though it is not their right to see it. I know in the municipalities that I act for and the developers that I act for, it * is with great chagrin when municipalities traditionally always say, sorry we all went to our ratepayers to let them see what the site plan is going to be. There are a heck of a lot of questions that are still unanswered on this proposal. I know, and you know that I know, that you people are somewhat at an disadvantaged position because of how this proposal came to you, as part of a settlement of some litigation, but you know as well that your lawyers were very careful in drafting that settlement so that you were not going to have your hands tied, that you could look at this freely, openly and completely. I think you owe it to the ratepayers, you owe it to the McIntyrels, you owe it to yourselves to make sure that it is the best possible plan. The Boy Scouts, the Lions, everybody wants to have this there because it is a wonderful opportunity to fundraise, but I think you as the elected representatives of the municipality, want not just a fundraising facility, you want the best fundraising facility. I think what you are doing here is you are buying yourself a whole bunch of unknown headaches. I hope you will send this back, I will be pleased to send you a complete list of the things that I think should be done. I have already provided Andria with a list of issues, but I would also be very pleased to present you with a list of how I think you can make this an awful lot better, if you would take somemore time and willing to demand a little bit more of the proponent. Any questions? Mayor Beard: Does anyone have any questions of Mr. Green? Thank you Mr. Green, are there any further questions or comments on this issue? Andria Leigh: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I am in receipt of Mr. Green's letter and unfortunately, I have been away at a conference for the last couple of days, so I reviewed it this morning and I think there are certain issues that I can certainly get back to Council and Mr. Green about that he wanted to look further into with respect to the parking and the noise. There are issues that I know have been addressed with some degree in the file and I can provide that back to Council but at this point in time, I am not in a position with respect to the noise aspect of it. The municipality does not have a noise by-law at this point in time, so no property is subject to a noise by-law. I just add that note for Council's information. C1 U There being no further questions or comments, when being called for the third time, the Mayor in closing the meeting, thanked those in attendance for their participation and advised that Council would consider all matters before reaching a decision. He then advised those present that if they wished to be notified of the passing of the proposed By-law, they should leave their name and address with the Clerk. MOTION NO. 1 Moved by Martin, seconded by Bell Be it resolved that this Special Public Meeting of Council (Special Policy Area No. 1 of OPA No. 22, formerly Township of Oro) now be adjourned at 7:27 p.m. MAYOR IAN BEARD CLERK LYNDA AIKEN Carried.