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07 02 1997 Sp Public3 Minutes THE CORPORATION OF THE TOWNSHIP OF ORO-MEDONTE SPECIAL PUBLIC MEETING WEDNESDAY, JULY 2,1997 TIME: 7:00 P.M. ONE HUNDRED AND TWELFTH MEETING 1994-1997 COUNCIL Council met this evening @ 7:18 p.m. with the following members present: Present: Mayor Ian Beard Deputy Mayor Murray Martin Councilor Walter Dickie Councilor Don Bell Councilor Neil Craig Councilor Thelma Halfacre Councilor Ron Sommers Staff Present: Andria Leigh, Planner, Jennifer Zieleniewski, CAO/Treasurer. Also Present: Nick McDonald, Glen Lucas, Brian Pratt, Steve Thompson, Rex Meadley Mayor Ian Beard opened the meeting and the Clerk explained to those present that this Public Meeting was to receive public comments with respect to a proposed Amendment to the Zoning By-law, under Section 34 of the Planning Act RS.O. 1990 c.P.13. The applicant has applied to rezone those lands located at Concession 1, Part Lot 36, former Township of Oro, from the Rural (RU) Zone to the Estate Residential (RE) Zone and the Open Space (OS1) Zone, respectively, to fulfill a condition of a draft plan of subdivision approval. To date, the Council of the Corporation of the Township of Oro-Medonte have not made a decision on the proposed Amendment, other than proceeding to this Public Meeting. Only after comments are received from the Public, requested agencies and Township staff, within the appropriate time period, will Council make a decision on this application. Notice of the Public Meeting was mailed out on June 12, 1997 to all property owners within 400 fee of the subject lands. Notice of the Public Meeting was also placed in the Barrie Examiner, Orima Packet and Times and Midland Free Press on June 12, 1997. The Clerk then indicated that correspondence had been received on this matter from the Simcoe County Planning Department, it reads: Dear Ms. Aiken, the proposed estate residential zoning bylaw amendment lot 36 Concession 1, former Oro the subject lands appear to be located within the Copeland Forest unit OM2 as a greenland system of the proposed County Official Plan. This area includes large contiguous blocks of forest providing upland and lowland habitat. Attached for your information is a brief summary of the significant features and functions of the area. It is important that development proposed in the area maintain these features and functions. If you require additional information please do not hesitate to call and it is signed yours truly June Little, planner. Mayor Beard stated that those persons present will be afforded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to the application. He then turned the meeting over to Andria Leigh, 2 Township Planner to explain the purpose and effect of the proposed Zoning By-law Amendment. Andria: Thank you your worship. Again as the mayor has indicated we are looking for public comment. I'm actually using the same map here. But now we are talking about the property highlighted in pink, so again looking at Highway 93 and Bidwell Road. This subdivision is subject to an Official Plan amendment that designated the property estate residential and it is a draft approval planned subdivision and in looking for the rezoning which is one of the conditions of draft approval. Essentially we are looking at a majority of the property on the easterly side as being estate residential and a portion on the westerly corner which would be open space-parkland dedication. Now, I think basically the reason we are here tonight is to get public comment and to move forward. As Mr. Lucas indicated we are looking at both of these subdivisions at the same time because there is an intent with the road connections that we would want to proceed with them as expeditiously as possible and consecutively So again I would like to turn Mr. Glen Lucas, who is the planner for the subdivision, to provide additional information on the subdivision. Mayor: Mr. Lucas. Mr. Lucas: Anyway I have a copy of the actual proposed planned subdivision. As Andria has indicated the eastern portion of the subdivision was a proposed rezoning to estate residential. We have a block of land over to the left of Grossman Subdivision that will result in Open Space 1. I would like to add as well your worship, there is a parcel of land, which is more or less here, sorry it's not highlighted, but this parcel of land here is currently owned by the Township and its been proposed that there be an exchange of land between the township and the owners and since the owners were entitled to this property the Township could obtain the open space ...... Council has indicated approval in principle to that however, the final agreement hasn't been finalized I understand there are discussions between the lawyers to do that. A subdivision proposes 44 lots there, estate residential lots require a minimum of 145 meters minimum lot area of 4,000 square meters that's equal to approximately one acre. (inaudible) Mayor: I would ask any members of the public here present who wish to make a comment or have a question on this particular development would they please come forward at this time and state your name for the record please. Any members of council who would like to make a comment or question. Mr. Dickie. Councilor Dickie: Yes Mr. Mayor. Through to Andria the portion that is going to be rezoned open space - has that been designated by the Ministry of Municipal Affairs to the subdivision draft plan. Andria: Councilor Dickie that lot is to be dedicated to the municipality as a parkland dedication as part of the conditions of draft plan approval. Mayor Beard: Any questions from anyone from the public or council on this issue. Yes sir. Brain Pratt: My name is Brian Pratt and I live in the south half of Lot 38, Concession 1 of the old Township of Oro. I farmed there for approximately 27 years and we haven't had problems with this development from water, but the one adjacent to our property we have had. So I want to know what kind of methods they've got to contain the water on this property because the development beside us we had water and silt running onto our hay fields and killing our hay crop and running down our roads where we make maple syrup and we never had that before and since the development has been sitting idle the ditches have filled up with silt and we're not getting run off now. But I just want to, like, this is one of the driest areas in the County of Simcoe, and I just wondered have they got areas to let the water go 3 into the ground the way it has done for centuries and so that it won't impact on us. Because I'm not asking for anything, I just don't want anything. So that's why I'm concerned. We've had problems with one development being developed and ditched and I just wondered if this will just add to it if it isn't properly engineered. And we had before the engineer for the development said we always give water, well I've been there for 27 years and the only time we got water was when they ditched it right to our fence line and then it run into our fields with the silt and like I said we had to put up a dike which seemed ridiculous in the Township of Oro with all the sand we have, but I had to build a dike to prevent all the water and silt from coming onto our property. Mayor Beard: Just a general comment the landowner that directs water then becomes responsible that's been my understanding, and I believe that's the story. (inaudible) ... hopefully we won't have that problem with this particular development if it goes ahead. Mr. Pratt: My only comment to that is that I'm a full-time farmer, I can't afford thousands and thousands of dollars of legal fees to make them do it. Alii can do is build a big enough dike to stop it, I've got lots of sand, I can do it. And I did it before, but it shouldn't have to be done. Mayor Beard: By the time you realize there is a problem its come across the road. Mr. Pratt: Yes, this is the case. We have pictures from the last time to. So. Mayor Beard: Thank-you very much. Deputy Mayor Martin: Are these the same pictures you showed us a year ago? Mr. Pratt: Whenever I did show the new council. Yea, I showed you pictures of the that come onto our land and we had Domon Clay take pictures. We knew there was going to be a problem because the snow has always stayed on those hills, then they started cutting the trees down and ditching it so the spring before things were really done, we had pictures taken of the whole area and you can see where there had been no water rushing onto our place through these low areas and then we had pictures of all the damage too. Mayor Beard: Any further comment? Mr. Bell. Councilor Bell: Mr. Mayor and clerk. I'm a bit confused with the letter from the county. It doesn't sound as if they're looking at the right place. Is that a new planner there? I've never heard that name before. Clerk: Councilor Bell, if you don't mind I transfer that question to the planner. Andria: Councilor Bell. I'll start with the end of your question first. No June Little is not a new planner with the County. She has been there about two years I believe. Now basically they are looking at their new County Official Plan, a proposed plan, so its not in force and in saying it is part of their greenland area, which is essentially all of the wooded areas within the municipality. Yes we recognize a lot of the Bidwell Road is heavily wooded and she is basically asking that those trees be protected as much as possible. But I think she has to recognize this is an already approved planned subdivision and obviously there would be 4 care taken in planning a lot and one of the amenities of people buying one of these lots is the treed nature of the area. Councilor Bell: Subsequently, there was some reference made to the Copeland Forest.....(inaudible) Andria: It may be though, and I don't have the map in front of me and I don't think I have it in here, the Copeland Forest track may come down further south of the Horseshoe Valley Road. I would have to review the map again and see. Mayor Beard: Mr. Craig. Councilor Craig: Thank you Mr. Mayor. To you Mr. Lucas, I would just like to follow up on the points that Mr. Pratt has been making about the storm water management. For this development and the development to the north of this lot that we looked at. You're probably aware of this on- going problem but this occurred in the past. I realize too that you're not an engineer you're a planner but do you feel there is going to be better storm water management done in this case then was done before? Have the perameters changed? How are we going to be sure that the Pratt's are protected from storm water occurring from this development. Mr. Lucas: Your worship, Councilor Craig. Yes, so I understand this private property is just north of the yellow. Councilor Craig: Yes. Mr. Lucas: The yellow refers to this subdivision which is the biggest subdivision. (inaudible) As I indicated in previous public meetings most of the engineering has been completed on this plan, but the actual physical works haven't been done. As I understand there has been some tree clearing and a little bit of grading on the roads. Mayor Beard: What road goes down there on the side of the property. Andria: In Pine Courts? (inaudible with many people speaking at once) Mr. Lucas: This road has been completed Storm sewers are basically in place. There is a small retention pond in this area here. In terms of the approvals, a storm-water management plan has been prepared and submitted to the township and has also been submitted to the Nottawasaga Valley Conservation Authority as in this case. And that report has been approved but not all of the work has been completed. I'm not an engineer so I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer the particulars, however, the applicant's engineer is here. Your worship I would like to ask him to answer that question. Engineer Rex Meadley: As Glen has mentioned, the engineering for this portion of the property has been completed. Our company wasn't involved at that time, but we have seen all the original reports and the final. The engineering on this section has not been completed with the exception it did account for some natural drainage traveling this way. Those reports were done back in '92-'93, we now have, as of 1994, a new storm water management guidelines 5 from the Ministry of Natural Resources and the Ministry of the Environment. Mr. Orsi, one of the owners has asked us to look at enhancing the infiltrations systems. (inaudible) Eliminate some of these remnants if possible and we'll be doing that. And as well, we'll be looking at the drainage coming across in light of the comments from the neighbors. I think all those matters will be dealt with as the engineering proceeds. Mayor Beard: Any questions or comments? Mr. Pratt: My name is Frank Pratt. I have a few comments to make on this drainage that has been there. It's great to say they're going to do it, but are they going to do after the problem has been created or are they going to solve the problem before it affects us because this is what we were doing last time we had to, the water would come out, the silt would come onto our hay fields and things like this, then we would have to get the Nottawasaga Valley Conservation Authority in. Take pictures, they would write a letter, it would take two weeks another two weeks and they would put up some kind of a silt fence and it would last about week and it would fall down. And we went through this sort of performance for quite a long time and it was really frustrating not to get anywhere with it. And, the part that has already been approved, the front part, they changed it, it was suppose to be a detention pond which is a pond with a hole in the bottom which really doesn't do anything. You get a large amount of water going through there, so something we had never seen before, cause it was going across our lane. So finally, AI Lees who works for RG Robinson came out and put a couple bags of cement in it so the water has to soak away or go into the pond and reach the top of the hole and then run in, and go into our place, which it's never - its always went into the ground, so except for a awful storm I don't think you'd believe in the rains we've had this year there's been very little water in that pond, so I think that's the kind of system that should be put in place and the land should be available for that before they do anything else. Because if you don't do that we're going to go through the same procedure as before, we're going to have damage and we'll be calling you up and saying this is happening again, and again, and again. And, another concern of mine, is dust. Like we farm, we've got, we keep between 70-80 head of cattle and we're working these fields right up along these, you can't see the lots, but we're working the fields along here, from 15 up even to these here lots here. And in the summer, even the cows walking, like some of those lots are less than a 100 feet deep, but we have neighbors now in the present subdivision, their swimming pool is 200 feet from our fence line and they have a cedar hedge and they're getting sand in their pool and on their window sills from our cattle walking up and down the lane. And when we start hauling manure out or something like that you get just clouds of dust and with the right to farm legislation we can still keep farming and we'll be spreading manure and spraying pesticides on within 60 feet of those houses and that's just poor planning. Those lots should be left on hold too until our land ceases to be farmed because you have a buffer zone or you're going to have all kinds of problems. Because, you know, like last week I was spraying pesticides on the back field and those houses it would just put a smell, I don't think it would hurt them, but it would just be an awful smell coming through there and there's all kinds of dust but it isn't just the tractors going back and forth it also the cattle, just the cattle walking, there's all kinds of dust. If you want to come and see, if it doesn't rain tonight, you'll see the clouds of dust there. People have to live inside come the summer time because they couldn't enjoy their lot. Mayor Beard: Thanks Mr. Pratt I think we'd be well advised Nick if there's some concern with that issue if would be a good idea to address it. (inaudible) Are there any further questions or comments at this time? 6 Mr. Lucas: Yes, I'll address Mr. Pratt's concern. With respect to the (cough - inaudible) concerns of Mr. Pratt's. These lots are actually more than 100 feet deep, in excess of 300 feet and some are even more for example, a lot acre is 181 meters, that's a considerable depth. Again the building envelopes for these lots which tend to be toward estate lots. (inaudible) . ..quite a large populated area from the rear of the house to the agricultural use to the north. Again we have some fairly steep slopes in here, most of the building envelopes as I've indicated, are in front here, the back of these lots can't be developed because of the steepness of the slopes in that respect as weill expect all those trees will remain. Some of the other lots for example people with these lots here we're looking at 64 meters and 200 feet deep, and then again, I would like an opportunity to respond and I will do that. Mayor Beard: The gentleman at the back there. Steve Thompson: My name is Steve Thompson and I cut a lot of wood out of that bush, and just so you know, all the years that I've lived there and cut wood out of the bush it is a bush, and I never suffered any dust damage. And the people who live in the existing subdivision to the best of my knowledge, after living there for 10 years have never complained to me about dust. Thank-you. Mayor Beard: Any questions or comments? Mr. Pratt. Mr. Pratt: I would just like to point out where Mr. Thompson lives, it's up here, these lots here, that's 54 meters, that's 150 feet. You've got a set back from the road, you've got to put the house, and then you have to have a small buffer zone. The houses aren't going to be 200 feet from our fields and this is my concern for the community, it's not my concern for myself. It's just poor planning not to have a buffer zone. Because you're going to put house right beside us. Maybe Mr. Thompson, he's lived quite a ways away from it, but our neighbors, they've been good neighbors, but you know they'll make comments to us that they can't keep their windows open in the summer time on the north side of the house because they get dust, so a lot of them have put in air conditioning to get away from that. So that is, well it's not going to affect us really, but we have the right to farm there through the right to farm legislation but I'm just pointing it out that there really should be a buffer zone for the people who are going to buy there. They're going to buy this beautifully treed lot, which they are, and then put their house in there, then come spring there's going to be manure spread right beside the house and there's going to be pesticides sprayed, and there's going to be dust all summer. So I think to allow that to be developed right now would be poor planning. Thank you. Mayor Beard: Thank you. Yes sir. Steve Thompson: I guess I'm allowed one more comment. If there's anything you ever need, precedents or whatever, I'll volunteer to go out and take pictures all over the Township of subdivisions that are beside farms and manure and dust. Mayor Beard: Any questions or comments. There being no further questions or comments, when being called for the third time, the Mayor in closing the meeting, thanked those in attendance for their participation and advised that Council would consider all matters before reaching a decision. He then advised those present that if they wished to be notified of the passing of the proposed By-law, they should leave their name and address with the Clerk. 4 7 Motion #1 Moved by Craig, seconded by Halfacre. Be it resolved that this Special Public Meeting of Council (P-6/89, Part of Lot 36, Conc. 1 (Oro) now be adjourned at 7:42 p.m. Carried. ~~h- It CLERK, LYNDA AIKEN