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11 30 1994 SpPublic Meeting 7:20 P.M. R o -• TEE CORPORATION OP TEE TOWNSHIP OP ORO-MEDONTE SPECIAL PUBLIC MEETING WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 30, 1994 Q 7:20 P.E. - COUNCIL CHAMBERS J1 FORT7-THIRD MEETING 1991-1994 COUNCIL The following members of Council were present: Mayor Robert E. Drury Deputy Mayor Ian Beard Reeve David Caldwell Deputy Reeve Norman Dalziel Councillor Donald Bell Councillor Alastair Crawford 7 Councillor Walter Dickie Councillor Murray Martin Councillor Leonard Mortson Absent: Councillor Joanne Crokam Staff Present: Mr. Gary Cunnington, Administrator, Kris Menzies, Planner, Andria Leigh, Zoning Administrator Also Present Were: Shirley Dunstan, Glenda Spencer, Gordon Wright, Dean Griffin, Joe Daca Edna Morris, Ross Bradley, Gord Blair Gary Thiess, Doris Robson, Lloyd Fletcher, June Fallis, Ann Bridge, IT IS TO BE NOTED THAT THE COUNCIL Gwen Sutherland, D.S. Sutherland, CHAMBERS AND ADJACENT PUBLIC AREA Jeffrey Ball, William May, Len Robso ROOMS WERE AT CAPACITY AND THAT THE Lawrence Fallis, Arthur Berry, Irene NAMES OF ALL THOSE PRESENT DID NOT Berry, D. Dowia, Les Jermey, Bob APPEAR ON THE CIRCULATED ATTENDANCE Shultz, Gail O'Brien, Lillian SHEET. McConnell, Gail Donovan, Lorraine Burton, Lorna Sommers, Betty Gullett, Brian Greasley, K. Bell, Lorne Van Sinclair, Ruth-Ann Howell, Katherine McHardy, Ted Beaton, Stephen Woodrow, Don Robinson, Allan Johnson, Donald • MacDonald, Ron Sommers, Paul Robins, H. Driverkslake, Tim Rideout, Don Anderson, N. Ready, E. Ready, Laury Ego, Dave Burton, George Lucas, Lorne Budd, Bob Besse, Charlie Micallef, Christina Usher, James Usher, Orval E Hutchinson, Neil Craig, Don McArthur, Margaret Baker, Myrle Pattenden, Maureen Martyn, Robin McNamara, Brock Rivers. Mayor Robert Drury chaired the meeting. Mayor Robert Drury opened the meeting by explaining to those present that this Public Meeting was to receive public comments with respecn to a proposed Official Plan and Zoning By-Law Amendment, under Section 17 and 34 of the Planning Act, R.S.O. 1990 c. P. 13. The applicant has applied to redesignate lands and rezone lands to allo for the development of a commercial water operation located on certain lands, Part of Lot 3, Concession 10 (Oro) . To date, the Council of the Corporation of the Township of Oro- Medonte have not made a decision on this application, other than proceeding to this Public Meeting. Only after comments are receive. from the Public, requested agencies and Township Staff, within the appropriate time period, will Council make a decision on this application. - 2 - Notice of the Public Meeting was mailed out on November 10, 1994, • • all property owners within 120 metres of the subject lands. Notice of the Public Meeting was also placed in both the Barrie Examiner and Orillia Packet on November 10, 1994. Mayor Robert Drury then asked the Clerk if there had been any correspondence received on this matter. The Clerk responded by indicating that a letter had been received from the Rowanwood Conserver Society Inc. as follows: Oro Township Council, Re: Gold Mountain Proposal, 9th Concession, Oro-Medonte Township, Dear Councillors: The members of Rowanwood community, on the 7th Concession of Oro-Medonte Township near Coulson, would like to register our opposition to the proposed Gold Mountain high speed water well, located on the 9th concession of Oro-Medonte Township. We ask that this letter be read into the minutes of the council meeting on Wednesday November 30. We are concerned about: 1. The cumulative impact on the Oro Moraine, which was establishes in the recent OMB hearing on OPA #39 as a sensitive and significan• water recharge area. We have received no assurance that the extraction of a million gallons of water each week, in addition to the quantities of water required by the large urban developments destined for this area, will not deplete the aquifers beyond recovery. 2 . Private exploitation of a public resource. The water beneath our township belongs not to those few individuals who choose to extend a straw down into it, but to all inhabitants of the area - human and otherwise - as well as those "downstream" whose well-bei also depends on this important water source. 3 . The inadequacy of current knowledge concerning the Oro Moraine. It was the testimony of expert witness Kirk Johnson of Terraprobe during the recent OMB hearing on OPA 39 that the kind of hydrological mapping done on the Oak Ridges Moraine has not been done for the Oro Moraine. Dr. Anita Beaton in her testimony demonstrated that the geology of a moraine is not straightforward and must be precisely mapped in order to predict how the various aquifers will behave. 4. The long-term impact of the loss of a billion gallons of water over the course of 20 years. This is not water which will be returned to the water table, but trucked to far-away destinations. Mr. Johnson testified that the impact of residential development o water is mitigated because much of the water is returned to the ground through septic systems. In situations where the water is removed and no recharge occurs, he said, the impact is much greater We cannot believe that this massive extraction will go unnoticed by future generations, who may require pipelines from Georgian Bay if we are not careful stewards of the resources under our fee today. 5. The possibility that the current township council, with no current mandate following the November 14 election, may ignore the fact that it is no longer representative of the public will and choose to support this zoning change. In response to a question by Connie Cochrane on this point at the November 22 meeting at the Jarratt Hall, Mr. David Burton agreed to abide by the decision of the new Council concerning final approval of this proposal. We trust that he will. Council therefore need not and should not waste everyone's time by considering this proposal at this time. In the event that the new council has to revoke any approval, the ratepayers could then be committed to a court case, OMB hearing or both - a consequence that would remain as a long-remembered and costly legacy of this out-going council. 6. The possibility that members of Council have friends, family members or business interest that would be affected by the approval of the Gold Mountain proposal. We ask each Council member to declare any such interest at the November 30 meeting. Sincerely, Hartley Woodside, for the Rowanwood community. - 3 - Mayor Drury: Does anyone wish to declare a pecuniary interest? Reeve Caldwell: Mr. Mayor, as I have done previously, prior to the correspondence information, I have a possible pecuniary interest because one of th- principals is my brother-in-law, even though, under the Conflict of Interest Act, it does not cover a brother-in-law or sisters. So, I will step back in the interest of leaving no possible doubt. The Mayor then stated that those persons present would be afforded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to the proposed Amendment. I am going to ask the people this evening that when we get to the question period to make your questions clear and I am very sorry for this but I will cut you off and ask you your specifi question so we can get to the point. Councillors have a full agend. after this public meeting this evening. He then turned the meeting over to the Township Planner, Ms. Kris Menzies, to explain the purpose and effect of the proposed Official Plan and Zoning By-Law Amendment. Kris Menzies: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I will apologize in advance if I have my back to anyone. The purpose of tonights public meeting is to allow Council to hear public comments on a proposed Official Plan Amendment and proposed rezoning on Part Lot 3 , Concession 10 in the former Township of Oro. The proposal is to redesignate lands from the Agricultural designation in the Official Plan to two designations on a portion of the property. One of those designations being Industrial and the other designation being Environmental Protection. The second proposal before Council this evening is to rezone a portion of that property from the Agricultural zoning to a site specific Industrial zoning and a Hazard Land zoning which is identified in the Zoning By-law as 0S2. The purpose of these designations in zoning would be to recognize a environmentally sensitive feature on the property. That would be the purpose of the Environmental protection on the 0S2 zone and the Industrial zoning is to recognize a proposed water bottling plant. Mr. Mayor, Mr. Gary Bell is here and he is representing the proponents in this matter and I am sure he had additional information for the public and is available to answer any questions Mayor Drury: Kris do you wish Gary to explain to the audience the complete request or move forward to the question period? Gary Bell: Mr. Mayor, I will make a few remarks recognizing that there is a lou of public here and that it is a public meeting and it is suppose to be brief and then looking very carefully to the public. My name is Gary Bell and I am a planner from Barrie with the firm o ' Skelton, Brumwell and Associates. We have been retained by Gold Mountain Springs to investigate and advise them on their proposed commercial water operation in Oro-Medonte. Gold Mountain Springs are here amongst the audience in various places, they are Bob Schultz, Dave Burton, Randy Roe, Doug Gullett and Mike Reynolds. They are all, essentially local in this Townshi• and the adjacent Township, businessmen. - 4 - Gary Bell: My purpose is to present the application by Gold Mountain Springs for a proposed industrial water bottling plant. To outline the wore done and in progress, for this project, we have requested and are pleased to have received a public meeting by the municipality now ol1 the overall project to obtain public opinion comments early. We will listen carefully to the public as we go out to the agencies that are reviewing the proposal. We are not now asking the municipal Council to make any decision on the matter either to adopt Official Plan Amendment or the Zoning By law Amendment that Ms. Menzies described. In fact, it is too early for that. There is lots of questions to be reviewed and considered We intend, in the future, to establish a basis with the municipalitl and the community for a co-operative working through this application. I recognize that the issue on everyone mind is this matter of the permit to take water. With Council's indulgence, I would like to address that matter, prior to getting to the subject of the public meeting, which is the industrial water bottling plant I believe in meeting issues head on. To go to a bit of background, Gold Mountain Springs was formed earl,' in 1994 by the gentlemen I have identified. I would like to point out the president of Gold Mountain Springs, Bob Schultz, he is back in here. In the early part of 1994, this company investigated a number of potential sites for commercial water operations in Oro- Medonte and area. They found a suitable site with high quality water and did specific testing on that in early July with Ian Wilso the hydrogeologist. Ian is here. We have asked Ian to come tonigh to address questions that you may have about the permit process recognizing of course, the permit is not the subject of the public meeting, but Gold Mountain Springs is wanting to take the concerns expressed very seriously and has asked Ian to come out as well. Following the investigation by Mr. Wilson, Gold Mountain Springs bought the property on July 20th. In early August, the company applied for a permit to take water, to the Sudbury Office of the Ministry of the Environment. That Ministry is charged with the responsibility of this permit to take water process and undertook the circulation of the application as they saw necessary, reviewed the hydrogeology report to ascertain whether this project, this request warranted the permit. We were retained in August of that year. In late August, we began to make our enquiries and investigations with the municipality about the potential for the industrial plant on the property. We also visited the site with th- Ministry of Natural Resources staff to investigate and to determine the specific nature of the property and its attributes. In September, further investigations proceeded and we attended at a meeting of Township staff and Council to discuss the potential of a application. On September 30th, the application for an Official Plan Amendment and Zoning By-law Amendment that is before Council for a public input meeting tonight, was submitted. On October 13th we met here in this room with the Oro-Medonte Planning Advisory Committee, which is an open meeting, to address the application in very general terms. We requested the public meeting at that time. There was only one or two people here from the general public at th- Planning Advisory Committee meeting in October. We knew that it wa! a larger public issue and we wanted much greater early public input We asked for the public meeting and we are pleased to see so many oI you here tonight. On October 19th, the Oro-Medonte council authorized the subject public meeting and the notices went out. The permit to take water process by the Ministry of Environment proceeded through September, October and on November 21, the Ministry issued a permit to take water. That is a document and wit! my planning report I will submit, I will give a copy to the I municipality for background reference. The permit to take water wa: issued with the terms and conditions provided for monitoring the - 5 - Gary Bell: system and the measurements and the reporting on the water taking. The permit was issued for 909 litres per minute or the equivalent c (\J 872,640 litres per day. Knowing that the public has been concerned about this permit and what it means. I went back to the MOE to ascertain exactly what it does mean when they issue a permit to tak- water. I can tell council and the public tonight that the Ministry in issuing a permit for this particular project means that they are satisfied that there is no potential impact on the cold water streams or wetlands of the area. The MOE is also satisfied that there will be no interference with other established or proposed uses for the ground water and this has been identified in the hydrogeological report, to their satisfaction. Further, they have identified that the aesthetic quality for natural function of the surface water body of the cold water stream will not be altered by this water taking. I have identified all of that because I realize that there is a fundamental issue on people' s minds here. I would like to move on from the permit aspect, back to the plannint application before the council tonight. Gold Mountain Springs directors provided to the Jarratt-Coulson directors of the area residents association, an introductory letter that I wrote September 22nd to the municipality, they provided that to Jarratt-Coulson back in September. Further, the Gold Mountain Springs directors attended a Jarratt- Coulson Ratepayers Association community meeting on November 22nd. To my understanding, I was not there, it was attended by 50 to 60 area residents and they went through the project. That brings us t. tonight. The property which is the subject of this planning application is Part of Lot 3, Concession 10. The property is 88.6 acres, it is located here (indicated on map) in the 10th Concession of the 3rd lot, the frontage on the 9th Concession road. The property is open area on the east and south and bush areas on the north and the west and it does contain a natural spring cold water stream. The property as you can see, is opposite the proposed Buffalo Springs residential development in Concession 9. This is the overall conceptual site plan that we have provided to the municipality and to the agencies for their initial review. It shows the concession road in grey here, the proposed Buffalo Springs residential development I have shown by adding on their subdivision (indicated on map) . The proposal is to process the water from the well that I have spoken about against the permit, through a water bottling plant or operation for bulk distribution and for the bottling of natural spring water and potentially flavouring and bottling of that water. A building is to be developed on this site here (indicated on map) and it is in the middle of the property. It is on an area of about 5 acres in the middle of the property, that is to be the industrial area. It is to contain a building of 20,000 sq. ft. up to approximately 50, 000 sq. ft. ultimate potential. That area is to contain storm water management areas, septic, tile bed areas, bulk water storage tanks and parking areas. Gold Mountain Springs is proposing to process this water on site and thereby establish through investment in a building, through jobs and assessment, a worthwhile project for Oro-Medonte. looking We have been king at the issues of environment, as I say, we hav had MNR on site and they are reviewing more complete information not as is the Health Unit and the local MOE. Traffic has been a concer. and we have done preliminary assessments of the traffic to be generated from such a project. That work is established that in combination with the Buffalo Springs project, the level of service for all traffic movements at County Road 22 to the north, will not essentially change. - 6 - We had to establish basic compatibility with this project in relationship to the proposed residential development, the tree buffer area, the tree area that you see here (indicated on map) is to remain within the property. Buffalo Springs will use this road from their entrance point a little bit to the north here (indicated on map) the one entrance. There will be a shared road by residential and industrial traffic at that point. The industrial traffic involves up to 20 or 30 truck movements or truck trips per day for the initial phase and up to 60 for the ultimate development. In addition to that there will be the smaller vehicle traffic of employees. We are going to establish that more formally for municipal consideration in our submissions. We have recognized that Horseshoe Valley is a corridor, it is to be a recreational residential area. This will be a change to that, it will be a change that we think can be established as acceptable planning on the basis of careful site planning, contribution to your strategic plan and worthwhile investment in the municipality. Where do we go from here? As I indicated, the application is relatively early on, it is under municipal and agency review. We are going to certainly hear from a number of you tonight. We are going to listen very carefully to that. We hope to establish a procedure, cooperatively with your Council for proceeding on down the line with the Official Plan Amendment, perhaps with special policies, a Zoning By-law Amendment, likely with special provisions to ensure that this industrial zoning provides for the proposed industrial water bottling plant and nothing else and certainly, a development agreement to accommodate all municipal concerns within their jurisdiction and to address the community concerns and requirements as we can through a development agreement. Mr. Chairman, I would be pleased to answer questions or to listen carefully. Mayor Drury: Thank you. I will just state a few rules regarding questions. First of all, I will allow you ample time to say your question. I would ask you to come directly to the point since a lot of people would like to have questions brought forward this evening and we don't want you to ramble on. I will make sure that we have order and decorum in her this evening and I ask that the people here that they respect the answers given. You may not agree with the answers but please respect them. Anyone who starts heckling, I will not allow it. Please abide by these rules and we will get along well. I will ask you to state your name, since this is being recorded, state it clearly and come to the microphone please. Allan Baker: My name is Allan Baker and I assume that you are accepting both questions and concerns. Ron Sommers: /� Mr. Mayor, would you ask everyone to speak into the mike because T there are a lot of people in the lobby that cannot hear a thing. Allan Baker: As I mentioned, my name is Allan Baker and I would like to discuss some concerns and some questions as we go. Mr. Mayor, Mr. Deputy- Mayor, Councillors; I am representing the Jarratt-Coulson & District Community Group to speak in opposition to the Gold Mountain Springs water taking operation and the proposed rezoning of the Gold Mountain property from the Agricultural to the Industrial and Environmental Protection designations. - 7 - Our organization, as mentioned, held a well-attended information meeting on November 22nd, 1994 which included a presentation by Mr. David Burton, director of Gold Mountain Springs. Our purpose now i to formally advise you of the concerns of our membership and many other residents of the area. The first concern we will address is the question of the effect of one million gallons per week of `water-taking' . This deep aquifer is also tapped by the Sugarbush development, the Horseshoe Valley complex and the recently approved Buffalo Springs development, all extremely large water users. Despite the assurances of the Proponents' hydrogeological report and the fact that the Ministry o Environment and Energy has issued a "Permit-To-Take-Water" to Gold Mountain Springs; area residents, especially local farmers, are ve concerned about the drawdown effects of not only this well, but the combined drawdown of all these major water-takers. In the case of Buffalo Springs, Sugarbush and Horseshoe Valley, the water removed from the deep aquifer is redeposited on the surface within the same general area. This constitutes a major loss to the deep aquifer, as it receives very little if any of the water deposited on the surface; it simply runs away. In the case of Gold Mountain Springs, the water which they remove i a complete loss to both the deep aquifer and the surface systems. There is a "limit" to the water supply in this deep aquifer and no one knows what that limit is. We do know it is wrong to remove such large quantities from the system some (52 million gallons per year) , Ground water, like the air we breathe, is a `Public Good' , a term used by economists that simply means; it belongs to everyone. For this reason, no one has the right to take our ground water in quantities that exceed his or her family's personal requirements. Would it be right for a compressed air Company to set up on this spot and take so much air that area residents, in say a one mile radius, would suffocate? No questions! ! I don't think you would sit still for that for a minute. Is the distinct possibility that area farms could lose the moisture so essential to their crops and their very livelihood acceptable? And is this so much different than the suffocation example? The hydrogeologist's report admits a drawdown of the water table from 16.7 metres below the surface to 36.6 metres (over 100 feet) after only 72 hours of pumping at the permitted rate of 208 gallons per minute. Can you imagine what effect would result from a week of pumping, how about a month, how about a year, how about 10 years; how about all four major water takers for ten years? Will the deep aquifer fail under this demand? Again no one knows! The hydrogeologist tells us blithely that the cumulative precipitation in the area far exceeds the water to be taken by their wells. No problem! ! We know, and you know, that almost all of it runs off, either on the surface, or immediately under the surface; t.' down hill to the nearest watercourse. Very little of it penetrates to replenish the deep aquifer. How many years did it take to accumulate this water? At what rate is it being replenished? No one knows! As so little is known about the capacity or the limits of our aquifer, (yours and mine, and everyone's in this room) , we believe it to be very imprudent to allow the taking of water as proposed by Gold Mountain Springs. We are also concerned about the proposition of rezoning Agricultural land to Industrial in the midst of an agricultural area and immediately adjacent to a large, dense residential development (Buffalo Springs) . This is simply 'bad planning' and should be rejected for this reason alone. - 8 - We are concerned about the impact on Horseshoe Valley Road in the form of increased traffic - 40 tanker trucks per day or 4 trucks pe hour - based on the 10 hour shift proposed. Every fifteen minutes, ( an empty or loaded truck will negotiate the 9th Concession and c/ Horseshoe Valley Road intersection! � ,.. Fully loaded, these trucks will haul an average 50 tons of water. Just imagine these heavily loaded trucks pulling out of the 9th ont.k Horseshoe Valley Road (one of the most hazardous spots among many o , that road) , and slowly trying to climb the knoll to the east or descend the grade to the west, while at the same time disappearing from the view of traffic speeding in both directions along the same road. This dangerous intersection is just yards from the sight of . tragic fatality which occurred about a year ago; fortunately the only fatal accident on this road so far. Think about how these ( ' trucks will compound the existing risks of driving of this road wit its poor sight distances, steep grades, hidden intersections and driveways, and total lack of shoulders and turning lanes. Now add in the additional traffic increase (projected at 300%) as a result of the OMB approved Buffalo Springs, Valdoro and Sabiston developments. Surely you can understand our concerns. In conclusion, we respectfully request your rejection of the Gold Mountain Springs proposal for the following reasons: 1) excessive and probably unsustainable water extraction from thi area's deep aquifer is unacceptable. 2) not enough is known about the aquifer to support a decision at this time - more study is required. 3) large water extractions have proven to be 'not in the public interest' as experienced in centres such as Bradford, Fergus and Elmira. TV Ontario recently aired a program describing ho a similar, but larger aquifer, the Ogallala, has been exploited in Kansas; in only four years the water table has dropped 140 feet and area residents are facing a major water supply problem. 4) Bill 126 which is pending in the Ontario Legislature, seeks to provide guidance for Municipalities in dealing with proposals like Gold Mountain. It should prove useful to Council in rendering a decision. A decision now should therefore be deferred. 5) the testing and monitoring offered in support of this proposal is totally inadequate. 6) a favourable ruling on this proposal will undoubtedly spawn similar proposals by other bulk water shippers - the gold rush syndrome begins. 7) until an Environmental Assessment of the site has been completed and is found tosupport this proposal, no decision should be made. 8) The establishment of industrial development in the midst of an agricultural area contravenes our Official Plan. 9) Horseshoe Valley Road is inadequate to handle the traffic adde• by the Gold Mountain Springs proposal, and poses an unacceptable threat to the quality of life and safety of area residents. Thank you for your consideration Mayor Drury: Gary, do you wish to respond to that? - 9 - Gary Bell: / Are those being submitted in writing? Because there are a lot of l points there that warrant a substantial written response that we (/ would be please to do. Ken Joyce: My name is Ken Joyce and I am the President of the Horseshoe Valle Property Owners Association. To Mayor, members of Council, ladies and gentlemen; our subject tonight, as we have heard, is Gold Mountain Springs Proposal. We have arranged to give a copy of our associations concerns to each of you on Council and to Clerk, C ' Shoebridge. However, I want to take the time to read our concerns to the very interested public here tonight. Our community has recently undergone a very difficult OMB Hearing dealing with OPA Amendment 39, in which the Board approved the Horseshoe Valley Corridor proposal. The development of five residential nodes was seen as a way to prevent random strip development along the Horseshoe Valley Road. Our Association believes that the Gold Mountain Springs proposal f• a commercial water operation - in which the community's water resource will be exported out of the township for private profit - contravenes both the spirit and the letter of the board approval of OPA 39. We have a number of major concerns that we wish to place on public record: - The commercial exploitation of our water resource will cause the lands between the residential nodes to be changed from agricultural designation to industrial/commercial. This violates the intent of the corridor Policy approval. It begins the process of strip development along the Horseshoe Valley Road. - the ruling on OPA 39 included a Traffic Agreement which was accepted by all the parties - including the Township. This agreement recognizes serious deficiencies in the Horseshoe Valley Road as evidenced by expert witnesses. Notwithstanding these deficiencies Gold Mountain Springs proposes the additional traffic of 40 to 50 tanker-truck trips per day! Adding this traffic load will only increase the problems on this narrow, hilly road - problems which were clearly identified in the "Joint Submission to the OMB, Schedule A, entitled Transportation Items. " This submission included the safety of school buses. We respectfully request the Council, in all conscience, to act upon this threat to our children as a primary concern immediately, as well as in the context of proposed increases in truck traffic to haul water. - The proposed water extraction is situated within the Oro Moraine Upland. We are concerned that this significant landscape feature i being overwhelmed by other extractions, including sand and gravel extraction. - We believe that the entire Moraine area should be studied in its entirety before any further development is approved. We see it as imperative that the ecological health of the Moraine be maintained and protected. We appreciate that such a thoughtful and responsible action will require County and Provincial participation. We also see this matter as an opportunity and a challenge for our newly-elected Council to demonstrate its capacity for leadership. - 10 - Our recommendation to Council is to pause to examine all the aspect - of the proposed water extraction enterprise. We ask that Council place -the good of the community above the interests of those who would sell our water for personal gain. Our Association stand ready to support Council in any such undertaking to safeguard our mutual interests. Mayor Drury: Gary, do you wish to respond or hold until all questions? Gary Bell: I think we will hold and make a general response. Ron Davies: Thank you Mr. Mayor for the opportunity to come here tonight. Firs of all, my name is Ron Davies and I live in the Township of Severn, in what use to be Orillia Township. I say it with no apologies, that what is being discussed here is as much my concern as to the citizens of Oro-Medonte. I might add that the concerns of the citizens the Township of Severn because aquifers do not stop at boundary lines. They say that no one is an island unto themselves. That also applies to municipalities. When I was on Council of the Township of Orillia, 1989-1991, we learned from our experiences wi the restructuring process and the City of Toronto who wanted to put their garbage in the limestone quarry about one mile from our home. About the first experience, let me say, we were not happy about it. Regarding our battle with Toronto, there was much concern expressed by neighbouring municipalities, worried about the possible pollutio of the underground water that also ran under their lands. We understood their concern and we welcomed their support. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a similar situation of mutual concern here. The aquifer that these million of gallons of water will be taken from, extends from. the Laurentian Highlands to the shores of Georgian Bay It could effect the water table in Severn Township as much as the farm lands here. As a matter of fact, the wholesale selling of water is a concern of the County of Simcoe, the Province of Ontario and the Dominion of Canada. We could be opening the door to one of the biggest giveaways of natural resources to ever occur in this Country. Our American neighbours, I often refer to them as American friends, except in deals like this, have badly depleted their water resources and now they are after ours. There are two points I want to emphasise. 1. The magnitude of the water being sold, one million gallons per week (52 million gallons per year) . This represents a volume of 8.3 million cubic feet of water. A cube of water that is 2020 feet long, 2020 feet wide and 2020 feet high in one year. Think of it over ten years, twenty years. 2. How in the world did this ever get MOE approval and almost with no public knowledge? I have heard so much about the environmental assets and impact studies. 3. Is it aesthetic under the EPA or is assessed under the EAA We could not even move the location of a new bridge ten feet without an environmental assessment which would have cost our township over $100, 000. 00 and yet all this water can be sold with MOE approval and no public hearings. It is unthinkable. 4. There is only one answer to this situation, the MOE (pardon me, I am quite nervous here tonight) should be rescinded. The MOE approval should be rescinded and there could be a public hearing under the Environmental Assessment Act. The taxpaying public have every right to know what is going on. Thank you. - 11 - Mayor Drury: Before I take the next question, I would like to know how many are S going to be taken now and the 52 million gallons of water per year. Is that permit to draw water 200 gallons per minute, 24 hours a day. Gary Bell: To clarify that, I don't have my metric calculator with me and I apologize, 909 litres per minute is, I believe, 200 gallons. John Hare: C; Mr. Burton told us at our meeting at Jarratt that there would be pumping approximately 200 gallons a minute, about 200, 000 gallons a day and going six days a week. That is what he told the people at Jarratt. Gary Bell: That is correct, I wanted to make sure about the metric conversion. The permit to take water issued by the Ministry of Environment, first of all is a permit for the taking of water from the ground water. - I advised you all of what that means in their view about th protection of the various aspects of the environment. That permit does not permit any particular sale or use to any particular group. It is only a permit to take water from the ground water that is sustainable. It is correct that the 909 litres is 200 gallons that is to be available per minute. About 16 hours of potential pumping per day and a rest of 8 hours per day for the system. Mayor Drury: Ok, so the permit is actually for 16 hours per day. Gary Bell: That is correct. If you would like, I could read the conditions. Mayor Drury: Please do. Gary Bell: The MOE established the conditions that the permit holder shall: Establish and maintain a system to measure the quantity of water taken. Operate the system and record the measurements of the quantity of water taken on a daily basis. Measure and record on a monthly basis the water level of the source well after a period of at lease 8 hours of 0 water taking. Return to the director the records made under these conditions. The taking of water under authority of this permit shall not exceed 16 hours per day. Mr. Chairman, other questions have been raised about other jurisdictions and what happens after a permit to take water is in place. We are asking for municipal permission for the industrial land use and the water bottling plant. The jurisdiction and control over that water bottling plant after Official Plan Amendment, after Zoning By-law Amendment and municipal site plan control, is the responsibility, which lies with Health and Welfare Canada and the labelling of bottled water comes under the Federal Department of - 12 - Consumer and .Corporate Affairs. The responsibility for ensuring safe bottled water with the Ontario Ministry of Health with the involvement of the local Health Unit. There is quite a procedure after the permit, after the municipal approvals, for establishing a water bottling plant. (l � David Pryde: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council. My name is Dave Pryde and I would like to make a small presentation to the Council and the public that are here plus Gold Mountain Springs Incorporated directors to the property known as West Part of Lot 3 , Concession 10, Township of Oro-Medonte. Mayor Drury: Dave, are you representing yourself or? David Pryde: Yes I am. It will become pretty clear here in a second. By abutting landowners, myself and Joanne Howatson. I would like to make it perfectly clear that neither Joanne or I ar- experts or authorities on geology or hydrogeology and will therefor- have to rely on expertise from others in those fields. We are however, the landowners whose property abuts to the northern boundary of the subject property under discussion. Starting on page one of the well evaluation proposed bottled water operation report prepared by Ian D. Wilson, P. Eng. for Gold Spring- Inc. Section 2.0, paragraph (3) "groundwater in useful quantities i� located both within the overburden deposits and to a lesser degree within the bedrock. The overburden in this area is known to supply large quantities of good-quality water to wells within the Craighurst-Prices Corner corridor. Two large developments on communal water within the corridor obtain water from the overburden one the Sugarbush development and the other the Horseshoe Valley complex. An additional, proposed development (Buffalo Springs) has successfully tested a well at 1364 litres per minute over a 61.5 hour period. " The Gold Springs well, this is not a quote, it is my own words again, would now be the fourth (4th) , all drawing water from the same supply. I do not know if this is overkill on a good thing or not but I have to admit it certainly gives us reason for concern. Another concern of ours is the lack of an assessment by the Ministry of Natural Resources on the impact to wetlands both on the property in questions and our abutting property. We believe that this shoule be done prior to any further work on or development of the property We, being one of the closest neighbours to the Gold Springs Propert are extremely concerned about the negative impact to wildlife and general public use of the ninth line of Oro-Medonte. There is an abundance of wildlife which is sure to be disrupted and more than likely will have to relocate to other habitats. There are walking areas that families use, including the road, sinc: there is very little traffic now. Horses and riders use the road t: access the trails to the south of the proposed re-zoning. Snowmobilers use the road on a daily bases during the winter for recreational travel. We believe that you as the Council for the people, elected by the people must give very serious consideration to any activity that would effect or impinge on any of the aforementioned. The rights of everyone must be respected and addressed prior to the proposed endeavour going into operation. The Gold Springs Inc. owners and partners have rights as do we, one of the closest - 13 - neighbours. Gold Springs has a right, if agreement is reached to commence operation of their proposed facility, to move their product and make a profit from it, in our opinion that must not be at the expense of the neighbours or public at large. We as neighbours would see the road widened and improved to � . ' accommodate large, heavy trucks obliterating the quiet, treed country road we now live beside. There is an extremely good change that three (3) phase hydro line would be required to power the machinery at the site. This would mean the now negotiated right-of way across the front of our property would become larger to accommodate the other power circuits. We have been told that truck traffic could be as high as thirty (30 per day. That means sixty (6) ) trucks pass within one-hundred feet of our house each day, sharing the road during certain hours with school buses and children when Buffalo Springs is developed. Mr. Burton told us, last Tuesday evening at the meeting, that the hours of operation would have to be agreed upon with the Township, but thought they would be from one/half hour before sunrise to approximately seven (7:00) p.m. , up to six (6) days a week, we find it absolutely incredible that you the Council members would be requested to agree to such a disruptive proposal effecting neighbours, traffic and the environment. The speed at which said same trucks would travel at is another grea ' concern, we were assured that the speed would be kept down but we all have seen how trucks travel, especially when they are on a familiar road where there is little traffic other than themselves. The environment will be effected by the truck traffic, the face of the earth will be changed forever with the building of a road to accommodate the trucks. When the trucks are loaded and going out the road the noise will be greater, the exhaust will be laden with harmful emissions due to engine speed required at low ground speed. Shifting and the high torque required to get the loads moving. Joanne and I bought the former Mitchell property and turned one of Oro's biggest eye sores into a property that Oro-Medonte Township should be very proud to say is in their Township. It took literall hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars to accomplish this, with no help from Gold Springs or the Township. This is to be our retirement home away from the noise and hustle and bustle of the city and certainly did not include living on a heavy use truck rout- for up to fourteen (14) hours a day. The tax bill is what we consider high and is always paid in full, on time to the benefit of the Township. We all know the value of our property will depreciat- living on a high use truck route as compared to a tranquil, rural country road. The quality of our life on our own property as well as our life style will be negatively effected by the operation of this commercial development with the extensive use of heavy trucks. We do not see this as either just or fair. Granted some of the Gold Spring Inc. partners live in the Township, but definitely not within a stone throw of their proposed truck route- and plant. In conclusion, having stated all of the above we still believe that all the involved parties have rights which must be respected. We also believe that there can and must be a fair and equatable negotiated resolve to these concerns without complete disregard for any one parties rights either legal or moral. We therefore respectfully request standing, voice and vote at any negotiations between Gold Springs Inc. and Oro-Medonte Township that would in an way effect, infringe on our rights or impose a less provident atmosphere or environment then we now live in. Respectfully submitted. - 14 - Mayor Drury: Would you leave a copy of that with us please? David Pryde: I have several copies. Bill Wilkins: I would like to know if there is anyone here from MOE? Mayor Drury: Is there anyone here from the Ministry of Environment? I don't believe so. Deputy Reeve Dalziel: Mr. Mayor, it is my understanding after having a discussion with Mr. Ian Gray that he found no value in having a representative here tonight. Lillian McConnell: Two parts to my question. The first, I am under the impression that once that application was processed that there is no reason that Mr. Burton and his colleagues cannot draw water. I think that they can actually at this point draw water, am I correct in that assumption? Mayor Drury: Yes they can draw water but I don't know what they are going to do with it. Lillian McConnell: Ok, so say they can draw water and find a market for it, so at this point, they could operate? Mayor Drury: But they would be contravening the Township By-laws. Lillian McConnell: Alright, so it is still up to Council. The second part of my question was when Buffalo Springs was being assessed the hydrogeological reports included draw down effects on the neighbouring wells. Albeit, I think they were very inadequatel done, I have not had anyone on my property and I wonder if anyone else has had people on their property asking permission to do a drawdown test on the residents well which are definitely going to b effected? Are they going to address that? Gary Bell: I think that. is a question that Ian could answer. Ian Wilson the hydrogeologist. Ian Wilson: When we did the evaluation of the Buffalo Springs well we did it in accordance with the accepted principals which have been around for the last 35 - 40 years. We did in fact measure the impact on three holes on the Buffalo Springs property and also on shallow wells to the north and to the south of the property. So there was some work done on the interference. This was contained in the report which was okayed by the Ministry of Environment. - 15 - Lillian McConnell: Tell me whose wells that you, the shallow wells in particular, whos: wells were monitored. Ian Wilson: I can give you the names, I have to look in the report. Lillian McConnell: And the depth of their wells please. Gary Bell: Mr. Chairman, I will just state for everyone to know that a copy of this well evaluation has been provided to the municipality and is available here at the municipal offices. I believe a copy is also with the MNR and the MOE offices and I am also going to provide to the municipality a copy of the permit to take water I have been describing and the jurisdiction over bottled water, so you will hav all the same information that we have. Ian Wilson: To answer your question, it was Mr. Ball and Mr. Pryde, they are both dug well, Mr. Ball 's well is 15.85 metres deep and Mr. Pryde's is 7.55 metres deep. Mayor Drury: Any impact on those well or draw down? Ian Wilson: No there was nothing recorded over the 72 hour test period. Lillian McConnell: Do you think that was adequate, only two wells? I mean there are farms that draw heavily on those and the produce for their well. M neighbours have dug wells, the farm beside has dugs wells and they are all impacted in a very close region to the proposed Gold Mountain Springs. My well was not tested, it is a shallow well. But I am thinking in terms of I think it is a little restrictive, you should perhaps expand the draw down tests and let people know when you are doing it so that there will be a normal function household, taking your normal drawdown and in accordance with your drawdown and see what the impact is. Mayor Drury: Mr. Wilson could you try to explain to the public why there is probably any interference with a deep drilled well and a shallow or dug well please? Ian Wilson: Yes, very often, and in this case particularly, there are heavy formations, clay formations that separate upper water bearing formations from deep water bearing formations. Now we were pumping from a depth of 300 odd feet and the chances of causing any interference with the upper formations is usually very little. Where you can get a problem is when you have sands and gravels and granular materials, then going down to a depth and you pump a well, you can actually effect a shallow well. In this case it wasn't. W= did not find any. - 16 - Lillian McConnell: Were the topographies taken into consideration because of the height of your land as opposed to some of the lands around it was quite a variation of depth, maybe perhaps, not quite that deep but you are at a much higher elevation. Ian Wilson: Yes, that was taken into consideration. Also, one of the Buffalo Springs wells which was used during their evaluation, it was drilled specifically to measure interference, the possibility of interference when they were doing their tests on their property, which we were not involved with. One of those wells was measured and had no response. That was also a shallow well, it was probably deeper, it was probably deeper than yours. The only response that we got, was from the Buffalo Springs production well itself, which is probably at the same depth and also from the top of the bedrock, which I think there are very, very few wells in the bedrock in this area. Deputy Reeve Dalziel: Thank you Mr. Mayor. My question is for you Mr. Wilson and I am going to quote Mr. Pryde first. He indicated that there was an aquifer going from Craighurst to Prices Corners. Craighurst is not too far from Hillsdale and I understand from Mr. Ian Gray that the Hillsdale Farms Produce Company has also obtained a licence to draw water. So I don't know how soon they may be drawing but is the proximity of that well going to further impact on the aquifer. Ian Wilson: No I don't think so at all. Those wells are deep and they are high capacity wells, say 400 - 600 gallons a minute, in between, the formation does not run all the way through because we have done some drilling in between and found virtually no formation. Deputy Reeve Dalziel: I am talking about a additional well, not a irrigation well, apparently now they have another well similar to this well and the proposal is to ship water from that well. Ian Wilson: Yes, I have heard that their proposal is to ship water. I didn't know that they have a new well. I thought they were using one of the original wells. Deputy Reeve Dalziel: I don't know that either. Ian Wilson: We have very recently drilled in the Hillsdale area and we drew dowrt considerable depth and that formation that we, the wells you are talking about is just not present. It just isn't there. We were M trying to obtain an additional water supply for the Village of Hillsdale and we were having trouble because the formation just isn't there. John Liss: My name is John Liss and I have a question for you Mr. Mayor, if I may? There has been some concern expressed about the Ministry of Environment and their permit. Would it be possible for us, for you to find out on our behalf, what the reasoning and the logic is behind this plan. Any reasonable logic. There must be something - 17 - there, so can that be done. The second questions concerns the term processing of water which we have heard a number times, I would lik: to know if there are any hazardous chemicals or other hazardous things involved, whether there is transportation and storage and us- that might be hazardous or anything that might be considered hazardous in the existing legislation in processing. My general comment is that I support all those comments that are presently opposition of this project. I think it is a lousy project. I would like it stopped now. Murray Martin: Mr. Bell if you would explain the permit as it is now. The permit that is there now is it agriculture or drinking water? The next process is through the Township to redesignate the lands, is there another process through the Ministry of •Environment for waterworks certification? Gary Bell: No sir. I will go through this again. To my knowledge, the Ministry of Environment is responsible for review and investigation of processing an application for a permit to take water. That has been done and completed and the Ministry has issued the permit to take water to Gold Mountain Springs for the 909 litres, the 200 gallons per minute. That is a permit to take water from the aquifer. The next jurisdiction for the water bottling plant that w: have proposed is the municipalities jurisdiction of a land use matter involving a industrial designation and industrial zone and a site plan, such as I have shown you here, to allow building permits if you will, ultimately, or an industrial building. That must be proceeded by site plan, proceeded by zoning, proceeded by Official Plan Amendment. The jurisdiction of the more technical aspects of bottled water falls to, I will quote this " the legal responsibilit for safe quality of bottled water, the legal responsibility for bottled water lies with Health and Welfare Canada" they have identified divisions of Federal Food and Drug regulations and parts of Act. The manufacturer is held legally responsible for the safe quality of bottled water sold to the public and there is informatio numbers here. A further jurisdiction, the labelling of bottled water, Federal Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs. A further jurisdiction, the responsibility for ensuring safe bottled water lies with the Ontario Ministry of Health under Section 95 of the Ontario Health Protection and Promotion Act. That Section enables the Lieutenant Governor General to make regulations in Council governing and prohibiting the procurement, transportation, handling and sale of water by tank or truck or other portable container for human consumption requiring the approval of the Medical Officer of Health to these matters. So there is a very large Ministry of Health and Health Unit involvement in a project o this nature and that is why I have sent this information as we got it to the local Health Unit for their early comments. There is no to my knowledge, I specifically checked it out with the Ministry of the Environment Approvals Branch, an approval certificate under the 7—' OWRA, under the Ontario Water Resources Act. That is for the waterworks for public consumption through a municipal water project Water bottling in a commercial operation follows this procedure here. J)(H Mayor Drury: l Now I am going to go back to Mr. Liss's question, that he originall ; asked. Yes I will ask the MOE for a full report and your other question was, is there any chemical used in processing this water. The answer is no. Ted Beaton: My name is Ted Beaton, 5th Line of Oro. I make a presentation with regard to the Gold Mountain Springs proposal. I speak against this - 18 - proposal Mr. Mayor, Council and ladies and gentlemen, of the extraction or pumping of massive amounts of water from the Oro moraine. I believe that this proposal is for the wrong place at t wrong time and for the wrong reason. Ted Beaton: J The water in question comes from ground water. The water is always on the move, it falls to the earth as rain, snow, hail or sleet and this precipitation is partly evaporated, partly runs off as surface water and the remainder that percolates into the soil is called ground water, just to clarify it. The protecting of our ground water for our children is vital. We must work toward success together through proper land use planning. Water as a resource is primarily regulated by the Province but it is not regulated by one Ministry. For example, surface water is by MNR and ground water is by MOEE. Water issues therefore, do not tend to be recognized fullh nor dealt with fully by government. There are large gaps in our understanding of the role of ground water and the hydrology and ecology of the wetlands. Recent figures on ground water usage goes back to 1981 which indicates how much attention it has received. In the meantime, there has been a rapid increase in the number of cases of ground water contamination, expensive clean ups of contaminated aquifers and expensive long term substitute water supplies. There is inadequate regulation of water taking permits at a time when there is increasing commercialization and increasing interest in exporting water to the USA. Public and government attitudes in the past, have regarded ground water resources as unlimited. Therefore, very little money for research was given to this resource. Now we find that the levels o' oceans are rising and the levels of fresh water bodies are lowering because of clear cutting and/or over usage. Now we find that the largest aquifer in the middle of central USA has lowered dramatically probably due to extraction of too much water or massiv- water irrigation programs. Mans intervention has a effect on ground water. Government at any level will be unable to solve or even prove the problems of ground water, without the help and concerns of local citizen groups. Fortunately, there is a growing interest and expertise within academia, directed that ground water studies and the training of professionals. Last year a report by the task force on ground water resources research and another booklet last year by Environment Canada on ground water is encouraging. The residents, that is the citizens of north Oro and Medonte have had some experience over the past few years with matters of aggregate extraction and large subdivisions on the Oro moraine water shed, which is surrounded by important wet lands. What we don't need at this time is a proposal for mega pumps to extract massive C-' amounts of water from that area for an indefinite period of time fo. exportation. Already we have several areas with enormous water taking along the moraine. This proposal asks for a rezoning from agricultural to general industrial and hazard lands. It would appear to me that we would b- opening the door to industrial development, which till now, we havel been told, is for recreational and residential use development alon! the Horseshoe corridor. I urge that this proposal be denied, that rezoning not be done and that proper land use planning with full assessment be carried out, not only in this area but in the entire Oro-Medonte Township and be so incorporated into the new O.P. Tha you. I would also like to ask Mr. Wilson a question. Is it not true that the deeper the well, the larger the area of influence? • - 19 - Ian Wilson: No, not necessarily so. The function of how much water comes out. It is a function of the permeability of the formation down there. The depth is really not that important. Are you going to be submitting your comments, because I think we should respond to that. Deputy Reeve Dalziel: I am trying to remember what my question was. I would like to address it to Mr. Bell. I think your long list of the controlling government levels is quite accurate. Your bottling plant, or should we shall we say the building in which the water is going to be pumped and shipped from, that would be considered as a public water t✓ works and then we would have to abide by Ontario regulations the same as a pumping plant in one of our cities such as Orillia. I am just quoting what Mr. Gray commented. Gary Bell: I don't think anybody is going to be surprised to hear that we have a difference of opinion from within the MOE. I think it is important that we do get to the bottom of this and I will undertake to explore and establish one answer from the MOE on this question. Deputy Mayor Beard: The new Council will be the one dealing with this. Actually, some of us have already been conferring on this issue as to getting involved with the Ministry of Environment. At this point, for the record, I would like to state that we do have at least two of the Council members elect in the audience. Mr. Larry Cotton and Mr. Ron Sommers. I am not sure if Neil Craig is here. I haven't seen him. Mr. Craig is here, he just cannot get into the room. Deputy Mayor Beard: Just so you are aware that these people are here and have been present all the time through the meeting to more or less take notes and listen in because they will be dealing with it. What I would ask people to do, who want to be notified of the next action that Council takes on this matter and it is not going to be for a while, is more or less get together in groups such as rate payers groups and have one of them or individually, if you like, mail your name and address to the Clerk and tell them that you would like to be advised when the action is going to take place and that you are informed of when Council does debate and work on this issue. I think that rather than trying to go through the same process we go through so we don't miss anybody because we know you people are concerned and we would like to see that so we can notify you. That is all I have to say at this time on the matter. Councillor Martin: C Thank you Mr. Mayor. Mr. Bell I ask that you contact Alex Scott of the Ministry of Environment. He told me the next process after approval of Council would be the certification to certify the pumps. So you might want to find out if it is going to take long. Gary Bell: (c_y I understand and I have seen correspondence to that effect in another municipality and I was directed to contact the Toronto Approvals Branch of the Ministry of Environment and this is the information they provided me. We will deal with that in writing and put it back in front of the municipality. - 20 - Lorne Van Sinclair: I am Lorne Van Sinclair and I live in Sugarbush and I have a question for Mr. Bell. As you mentioned in your permit that there is several conditions but are there any criteria. Are there any II controls, you say the monitoring of the depth of the aquifer but is \_J there any depth that they say to slow down or stop or do anything. Are there any controls whatsoever for you to look at? Gary Bell: I am going to ask Ian to address that as the hydrogeologist. Ian Wilson: The permit to take water authorizes you to take that amount of wate� but there are a number of safeguards and one of which is that the permit holder is not allowed to seriously impact anybody else water supply. If they do, the water supply has to be restored at the cos`' of the permit holder. If you thought or anybody here thought that they had a problem, if this thing ever goes ahead, and they had a II problem, the first thing they would do is to contact the Ministry one Environment, Alex Scott in Barrie. You should also notify Gold Mountain, those are the two people. The Ministry of Environment will immediately come after Gold Mountain and they would arrange a meeting and I as their hydrogeologist or somebody else would meet with the Ministry of Environment at your property and we would try and determine whether or not your problem is actually due to that water taking. Mayor Drury: Order please, order and respect both please. Lorne Van Sinclair: I understand from the last OMB hearing that the moraine really hasn't been accurately mapped as to where the water really flows underneath, so how would you know if the wells say in Sugarbush or in Oro Hills or Horseshoe Valley, how do you know if it is effected if you don't exactly know how the water flows under there? Ian Wilson: Well, we know pretty well. We know pretty well and it follows topography. It flows from the north on this side and flows to the south from the south side. If you are located near Sugarbush, for instance, and you have a problem, it is more than likely Sugarbush but you would be talking to the Ministry of Environment and their hydrogeologist would be out there and they would be looking at your problem. I will tell you for a fact, this is an absolute fact, the,, will bend over backwards to help you if there is any doubt, rather than to say that there isn't any problem. �i Lorne Van Sinclair: Why are there not more controls on Gold Mountain? Why is it up to the people around it to find a problem and then report it? M Ian Wilson: - 2' Well there is. There is controls. If, for instance, this information that they have to submit on a regular basis to the Ministry, if this showing, for instance, that the water level in that well is going down and continuing to go down, they will step i immediately. - 21 - Lorne Van Sinclair: Well that was my question. Do they have any criteria because they= ris nothing mentioned, there is no figures, there is no. Ian Wilson: Well, it is very difficult to put a figure on it. But, if they se= that the water is consistently lowering in that well, they can say to them, look guys you have to cut back and they can cut it back until such time that you are not actually lowering the water levels Ian Wilson: Everybody is talking about mining and we should really get one poi straight it think. We are talking about the mid-west and we are talking about northern California and they are, they are mining th= aquifer. They are taking out far more water out of the aquifer do 1 there and very deep then it is going back in and the reason for tit.' is that this is a very dry climate down there. There is not sufficient precipitation, rainfall, melted snow, going back into t - ground to balance what is coming out. So what is happening, someo - has mentioned that the water level lowered 140 feet, I think, in this deep well. That is exactly what it is, they are mining that aquifer and eventually those wells are going to go dry and eventually that aquifer is going to go dry. Now if we are talking about Canada, Canada is a different climate completely. This is a continental humid climate and as you are pumping water out of the ground, some of it is going back in and in all my experience, there are extremely few aquifers that are actually being mined and one of them, which is a classic example, is London. When London was on ground water, what happened there is that they pumped during the summer, they stopped during the winter, the water level didn't recover, they started the next summer and the water level went down again. They had big problems. There were a lot of people that the' had to restore their water supplies and eventually they shut down the wells, that is the Whiteout wells, if anyone knows the area. That was mining the aquifer. We have no experience with that happening here at all. Now, I have been involved personally with most of the wells that have been put in here, certainly all the one, in Horseshoe Valley, the ones in Sugarbush, the development in between. We have put in wells in Jarratt. We have put in wells in Bass Lake area. We have no knowledge that the aquifer in any of those areas is being mined. I really don't think it is going to be mined in this instance as well. I must say that the Ministry of Environment issued this permit and this permit is not an easy thing to get. It is a very difficult thing to get. Okay, you don't believe me but it is true. We deal with the Ministry on a daily basis. We deal with applications for permits and I tell you, it is a very difficult thing to get. I will also tell you that this is all going through the Sudbury office and they are much stricter in the Toronto, which is central region and we use to go down there. So I don't know, I cannot obviously talk to them, but they looked at our report, they looked at the work that we have done and they agreed that this was not going to mine the aquifer, that it is not going to cause a serious problem for people on wells and they should pump. Now, as I said before, if there are any problems, the Ministry will step in immediately. It is not up to the owners of Gold Mountain, it is not up to anybody else, excep' /1 the Ministry. They will step in immediately and they will either ( shut them down, they will blow them down or they will take action c_j and if your well has gone dry, it will be fixed up at no cost to yo and that, you can check that with the Ministry anywhere you like. That has been in effect since about 1958 and I was at the Ministry of Environment in those days. That is when it started. - 22 - Joanne Howatson: I am Joanne Howatson and I am also owner of abutting property with Mr. Pryde. Actually, I have three quick questions. One is, you say that whoever is the permit holder, if our well goes dry, they have to rebuild it or whatever, my question is, what if Mr. Burton sells this operation. Is that permit transferrable? Ian Wilson: No it is not. Joanne Howatson: So what happens if there are new owners and our well goes dry? Ian Wilson: They are responsible. It is the person that is actually taking the water and you can't just hand the permit over to someone else. It has to be reapplied for. The person that owns that permit is responsible to you. Now if you have a dug well and it goes dry, and if it can't be deepened to your satisfaction, they will have to drill you a well and even if they have to go down to 300 feet, they will drill you a well and it won't cost you anything. They will hook the well up to your system, they will supply you with pump which you will need and it will go into your system and that is dore by the Ministry. Joanne Howatson: The other question is, apparently on September 30th the applicatior for this permit was presented to the MOE correct? On November 21st the permit was issued. That is 21 days, isn't that awfully quick. Mr. Burton himself was surprised at the speed that this happened. He said that sometimes it takes could take maybe up to a year. Ian Wilson: Yes that is correct. I honestly have no idea why they did that. The only thing that I can assume is that they were satisfied that there was not going to be a problem. I have no idea on the length of the process but that proposal had all the information, looked at by the Ministry of Environment and then they issued the permit, they were convinced. There are three things that they look at. One is that there is going to be no mining of the water. The second thing they look at is if there no serious interference. If in our report we had indicated or shown that there was a potential for serious interference, they would not have issued the permit or they might have issued it for half the amount on a trial basis or short term basis, but they didn't. The other thing, of course that they are interested in was the quality. Those are the things that they are interested in and I really can't answer your question. Sudbury would have to tell you that. But it is true, sometimes it takes a long time and some times it goes through quickly. Gary Bell: - , Mr. Reeve, may I clarify the timing please because perhaps I wasn't clear about the nature of applications. On August 5th, 1994 the permit to take water application was filed in the Sudbury office. August 4th, that permit was not issued unti_ November 21st, some three months and a week or two later. The September 30th application I spoke of was to the municipality for the Official Plan Amendment and the Zoning By-law Amendment for the industrial plant. - 23 - Joanne Howatson: We are still only talking three months, from August 4th to November 21st. ( " Mayor Drury: I don't think anyone would doubt that it was very quick. Everyone has been told. Joanne Howatson: The other question I have is for Mr. Bell. In your presentation yo said that you feel that traffic will not be effected on Horseshoe Valley Road. How do you justify 60 trucks a day plus "smaller vehicles not effected by traffic on that road. Gary Bell: Our traffic engineer has looked at the traffic added by the Gold Mountain Springs project against the background traffic now and expected on the Horseshoe Valley Road. There has also been the Cole Sherman Township review of traffic along there and their opinion is that this level of additional traffic is not expected to create the problems given that the County is dealing with that site line concern. Joanne Howatson: What about the traffic affect, there are children living in that area. Sixty tankers going up and down the 9th of Oro. Gary Bell: I believe that the Cole Sherman work for the municipality and our traffic engineers preliminary work considered all of those matters together and the 60 tankers, I want to clarify, the trucking operation is to be potentially, in the early stage of the project, Phase 1 as I have shown the building there, about 10 trips per day out or 20 total trips and with an early bottling operation, an additional 5 trips out for an additional 10 trips, that is a total of 30 trips in the first phase per day. Ultimately, there will be potential for 6 bulk trucks and 15 bottle trucks out and back per day and that is a total of 42 trips. Joanne Howatson: Whether it is a bottling truck or a tanker, I don't think anyone really cares, it is a truck. That is still 45 trucks a day going and coming, going up and down Horseshoe Valley Road. I drive school bus in this area and I know how the trucks go up and down the road and I can't justify it and I don't think anyone else can. Mayor Drury: This public meeting has been going on for an hour and a half now an. I am going to ask that you keep your questions very distinct and clear. Councillor Dickie: I have a question through to Mr. Wilson. This is your report made on August 2nd, is this the only report that was submitted with your application or did you submit something else, if you did, will the Council be receiving a supplementary. Ian Wilson: No, that is the only proposal that was submitted. - 24 - Gwen Sutherland: Gwen Sutherland from Sugarbush. I just wondered if you could answer with a yes or no the permission that has been given for water to be drawn right now, the use of the water, right now, is it just agricultural because the land is agricultural? Gary Bell: The proposal is. . Gwen Sutherland: No, No. I just want to know if that is the way it is right now. You have permission to draw so many gallons of water for what use? Is it only agricultural at the moment? Yes or no? Gary Bell: It is not agricultural, it is a food. . . Gwen Sutherland: No, but the use of the water that you draw. What use can you put it to right now? With your permission. Gary Bell: That permit is not a permit for use, it is a permit to take water from the aquifer. Gwen Sutherland: Okay but what are you going to do with it. That is what I want to know. Gary Bell: They are going to put in trucks. Gwen Sutherland: If you get this permission. Right now, if you take it from the ground what can you do with it? Right now. Gary Bell: Put it in trucks. Brian Greasley: I don't think you have asked a question that can be answered on a yes or no basis. The water is going to be bottled. . (unknown) Not now. Right now. What is the permit for? Gwen Sutherland: I-) I Can you put it in trucks today and drive away with water in the trucks. Today? Brian Greasley: Yes. 25 - Gary Bell: Mr. Greasley is the solicitor for Gold Mountain Springs. He has explained that the Gold Mountain Springs permit to take water may • I used now by putting that water in the bulk trucks and leaving the site. (unknown) On agricultural land? Mayor Drury: This is a legal opinion and there could be many legal opinions. Deputy Mayor Beard: Mr. Greasley, you expressed the opinion that it could be legally sold now, that is a commercial permit I believe on non-commercial property. Can it be legally sold as a commercial use. Brian Greasley: If that water is put in trucks and trucked to Toronto (inaudible) ordinary water out of the ground (inaudible) Mayor Drury: If I might Deputy Mayor Beard, I think we are getting into a definition situation here whereas Council are here to decide or hea about it tonight. If in fact Gold Mountain Springs started drawing water tomorrow, the municipality has to make a decision whether or not to enforce the By-law as they see fit and that is where we have a legal opinion on one side and a legal opinion on the other side. Please speak up. Brian Greasley: My opinion from speaking to my clients is that the Company now has the MOE permit to draw water. They are entitled to draw water. They are not entitled to build anything out there but they are entitled to draw water from the ground source and subject to to sell it or do what they want to do with it. My clients won't take my advice, they will not pump. They don't want to pump because they all want to make sure that what ever they do i- appropriate it is legal and they really don't want to upset anybody they simply want to get on with a commercial venture but when they get on with it, they want to do it properly. Mayor Drury: We have five minutes left. Gary Thiess, you had a comment? Gary Thiess: First of all, I have two letters here, one from myself I am a resident of shoreline Lake Simcoe with a 90' deep drilled well whose cool contents are very precious to me. No less precious are the private wells and their contents in the area of the commercial water extraction site. A number of wells were identified at the last public meeting as dug wells. These wells have served their resident owners over the years and although the M.O.E. refuses to acknowledge them they could be the first to be impacted by a sustained drawdown. Who will answer for those people? If council did not have a concern for private water systems they should be concerned for the public systems that they and they alone are responsible for. Any hesitation in the water pressure at Horseshoe or Sugarbush would hold this entire municipality responsible throug its elected council. - 26 - If this proposal is to go forward and the Ministry of the Environment apparently feels that it should, then Oro-Medonte shoul.; request the funding necessary to begin an Environmental Assessment. Surely, the M.O.E. the provincial protector of all aquatic life in { our lakes and rivers wouldn't holdback when the human environment i • concerned. An E.A. might cost, if property done, $100, 00 or more, a small expense to be written off over the years of successful operation. An E.A. would address all of the concerns of the mistrusting population and put the responsibility of the decision on the shoulders of people who are truly qualified. After all, council we are not paying you to be super intelligent just honest with the tax payers. Please ask Mr. Burton if load restrictions on rural roads wouldn' get him to participate in the upgrading of the 7th concession like the other major users have agreed to do. Please ask the Ministry of the Environment why municipal water systems require chlorination and daily monitoring but in a tank or bottle and a few miles down the road everything is ok. From the President of the association in which our homeowners in th- area that I live in, the President is Lorne Carson. We, the residents of the Moon Point Home Owners' Association object to the proposal that would see a commercial water well developed in the rural environs of Oro-Medonte. The development requires a zoning change which should require professional input, be it hydrology, engineering traffic studies etc. People who live close to this proposal deserve professional consultation and guarantees that the life style they bought into will not be significantly impacted. This does cost money. The proponent, whose only investment is a 360 foot pipe in the ground could,, without any more involvement, sell the property and figuratively and literally hand Oro-Medonte out to dry. In the November 22nd meeting, Mr. Burton indicated that he had a commercial permit to take 200, 000 gallons of water a day, issued by the Ministry of the Environment. What testing, if any, did they do Are they prepared to appear? to respond, to be answerable to the concerns of area residents or is this another attempt to download the provincial responsibility onto the municipal government. If this is the case, we the taxpayers of Moon Point, who don't impact on the infrastructure of this municipality any greater than any other, resent that the significant costs that should be attributabl- to this project would be borne by anyone but the proponents. Signed Lorne Carson. Mayor Drury: I am going to allow 2 more questions. --' Ian Wilson: Just very briefly, the Ministry of Environment does in fact protect dug wells. So they would be treated just like any other wells. (unknown) �.i Are they identified on any maps of any area. Ian Wilson: No they are not, unless, they were bored. If they were bored, whic is virtually the same as a dug well, the record has to be submitted to the Ministry. Dug wells, which are hand dug or dug with a backhoe, don't have to be. But they are protected. 1 Q - 27 - Councillor Martin: Through to Mr. Bell. (inaudible) any person with water for export (I I (inaudible) Gold Mountain (inaudible) Gary Bell: I am going to ask Bob Schultz to address that. The potential for export of the water from Gold Mountain over to the U.S. I believe i- what he is asking. Mayor Drury: Is that in bulk export ? Gary Bell: Bulk export to the U.S. Bob Schultz: I have no idea I am not in sales. Robert Duncan: I am here on behalf of my family and because I live within a mile and a half of the proposed well on the corner of the 9th and Bass Lake Sideroad. My name is Robert Duncan and I belong to the Orilli. Fish and Game Conservation Club and the Orillia Fish and Conservation Club has 90 acres of land kitty corner to my property. This property is fed from springs and we feel that it is very close to this project and we feel that there is a problem. I have a letter here and a lot of the things I have mentioned so fad have been brought up by other people and I have some questions that I would like to be considered before anything like this ever goes ahead. Some of these questions have been asked before but I think they are worth asking again and I hope that you people will listen to them. What, if any, research has been done on the Oro Moraine concerning water? I am not just talking about the local area around the well head, I am talking about the whole moraine and that is a large area I think that you as Council members should be thinking about the whole of the Township and not just this small little area that you were talking about. If there are these studies, I would like to know about them and I would like to know who paid for them? I would like to know who benefits from this project and I would lik : to know what benefits there are for the community and also what are the costs for the community? I would like to know what guarantees there are for the wells of nearby homes? Now that has already been answered, I think, but thi • one hasn't. How big an area does this guarantee cover? How difficult is it to prove that your well has been harmed by this one Our club and a lot of people in Orillia dealt in 1990 with the incinerator project that was proposed for Orillia. One of the things that came from that, and it was a significant thing, was that the proponents of that said that you would have to prove if your property was contaminated or if the water was contaminated. In Lak: Simcoe, you would have prove that a particular molecule, this has come from a Public Meeting, came from the stack. Now I am trying t4 bring that back to this. How would you prove that your well was affected unless you put dye down the well, I don't know what kind o determinology or the problems would be for that one but it is a question. - 28 - Robert Duncan: Who would be monitoring this project? Would it be up to the local people to monitor their own wells or would there be someone constantly monitoring, checking peoples wells, checking depths and things like that. Who would be responsible for enforcing these guarantees. We are talking about Government Agencies here, a agenc1 and I guess that is what we have to depend on. This is another question about the guarantees being transferred to a new owner if the water company is sold. One question that I don't have down her- is what happens if the company takes the water out for a number of years, ten, fifteen, twenty and the water level goes down and suddenly the company goes bankrupt. Who is responsible for all the wells around there. Does that mean the municipality or the province. It won't be the people that are bankrupt because they will be gone. Who is going to be paying for the new construction that will be necessary on the 9th Concession and on the Horseshoe Valley Road. Now I realize that some of the developers who have had their projects okayed in the last little while will probably be putting something into it but is there going to be, if this project goes ahead, is there going to be fees asked for maybe a water tax, for example, per gallon or whatever to pay for road maintenance and roe: construction. I understand that the gravel companies are suppose be doing in certain areas so I don't know if that has ever been don: with a similar project but that is something that should be considered. Will there be a bond collected ahead of time so that the local taxpayers, I am talking about the situation when a company goes bankrupt will there be a bond collected ahead of time? Now I am no . talking about a tax on the water to keep or maintain the road for example, I am talking about a bond that is maintained to ensure that the local taxpayers are not caught in paying for the well, or payin! for peoples wells that have gone dry. There is another group here that we have not talked about too much and that is the protection of the creeks and wetlands, the surface water around them and I know a lot of the creeks that go into Bass Lake start from springs. I know there is water run off on the surfaces around it. What kind of monitoring of those springs is there going to be? Who is going to be responsible for that and who is going to pay for it? In conclusion, the people of Oro-Medonte depend on the council they elect to protect the long term interests of the township and its people. Public interest must be put before self interest. Ian Wilson: I think that you have asked a number of good questions and I think it is going to be very difficult to try and answer them all and I presume that we will get a copy of your queries and that we will have an opportunity to answer them. I should tell you that there is no limits on how far away your well is from the production well if you think you have a problem. The other thing that I would like to emphasize very, very much, this is not like air pollution and I don't know much about it but you don't have to really prove that your problem is due to people taking water. The Ministry of Environment, I will say this over and over again, the Ministry of Environment leans over backwards for the person. So, if there is any doubt in the Ministry of Environment's mind that your well has been impacted, they will go to the permit holder. The other question that you brought up was, okay, what happens if they draw the water table way down and then they quit and who is going to pay for what. The Ministry of Environment won't allow that because they have to submit their records all the time and as I sari • QI ` e , - 29 - Ian Wilson: before, if they find that for some reason and I know it won't happ= but if for some reason they are mining the aquifer, they will stop them long before it gets to that time or period. I know you had many more questions and I hope that you do get them up to me to answer them. Mayor Drury: I am going to allow this lady one quick, short question. Connie Cochrane: This is a statement, there is not much there, one page. Mayor Drury: Are you reading stuff that has been said before? Connie Cochrane: No. Mayor Drury: Seriously? Connie Cochrane: Seriously. My name is Connie Cochrane, this is a letter to the Mayor and Council of both the outgoing and incoming Councils from myself and husband, Jack Segul. Re: Proposed Gold Mountain Springs, Lot 3, Conc. 10, former Oro Township. Once again the citizens of this are= are forced into a position of having to speak out for the enforcement of the Township plan and zoning. It has been many year- since we have felt we could live without continually looking over our shoulders for fear of losing our rural lands and lifestyle. Fortunately, as a result of the recent municipal election, the residents have served notice. Oro-Medonte does not stand for rampant development, with no regard for the environment and existin! zoning and we are confident that development that is found to be acceptable will be directed to appropriate areas and will be conducted under a vigilant eye. The Township plans do not exist to be skirted. That this proposal has been put forward under a lame duck council i= shameful. We do not have the time for this. We do not have the money for this and one has to wonder, in whose best interests it is that this application was accepted immediately before an election. Councils are elected not only for their platforms but to show the moral and ethical fibre required to stand up for what is right according to the wishes of the electorate and the Township plan. We do not have the documentation or the expertise to know whether the designated aquifer that Gold Mountain Springs is proposing to use can sustain the pumping that has been currently permitted. Som- serious arithmetic needs to be done for starters. As of November 25th, the local office of the Ministry of Environment was not even aware of all the permits that had been issued for this aquifer. Further, runaway sales of bottled water and water filters only testify to wide spread recognition of an environmental crisis. Although Canada is blessed with 9% of the worlds fresh water, not much of it is drinkable. The Great Lakes system, which supplies most of Ontario and Quebec, put 350 persistent toxic compounds on tap. From the U.S. side alone, industries dump 24 million kilogram= of toxic waste a year directly into the water. Half of those toxin' C lc - 30 - Connie Cochrane: are suspected of causing birth defects, 15% are considered {r carcinogenic. The report on Great Lakes water quality, put out b the International Joint Commission, states that "direct ground wat:r discharge to the lake basin is thought to be significant. Ground water contamination by persistent toxic substances, such as chlorinated solvents, pesticides and radio nucleons has been identified in many basin locations" . Therefore, if our aquifer is as pure as the Gold Mountain Springs people say it is, we should b: happy, we should be proud and we should be doing whatever it takes to protect it at whatever the cost but we should not be trucking i • out of here for the sake of anyones short term financial gain. In light of the problems in the Great Lakes, we certainly cannot look to Georgian Bay as an alternate source for drinking water, should the aquifer be depleted. Sales of bottled water also confirm the gullibility of consumers a d the shallowness of ecological awareness. Pesticides can poison rural springs as easily as Great Lakes and filters don't catch the sneakiest chemical culprits. The trade of water is also environmentally costly. It drains aquifers that were centuries in the making and burns up gas in delivery. Designer water is a personal solution that doesn't work for individuals and doesn't build toward changes in society or the water table. With the recent amalgamation of our two Townships, all development should be frozen until we have a new Township Plan with full input from the residents. As well, the partners of Gold Mountain Springs may have all the intentions and though our aquifer may have some of the best water 'n the world, this proposal is ill timed, ill located and quite likel , ill conceived in light of the present and future needs of this Township. Mayor Drury: That will conclude the meeting. Anyone that has any further material that they wish to bring forward to send it to the municipality in writing as soon as possible please. The Mayor in closing the meeting, thanked those in attendance for their participation and advised that Council would consider all matters before reaching a decision. He then advised those present that if they wish to be notified of the passing of the proposed By- law, they should leave their name and address with the Clerk. MOTION NO. 1 i Moved by Beard, seconded by Dalziel Be it resolved that this Special Public Meeting of Council P-29/94 (West Part Lot 3, Conc. 10, formerly Oro) , now be adjourned @ 9:15 p.m. if R ROBERT E. D Y �/ I DARE E E B�� Mf OEBRIDGE