04 06 1994 Sp Public Minutes
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8PBCDL PUBLIC KBftING
WBDHB8D&Y. APRIL C. 1994
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P.M. - COUNCIL CDHBBRS
TKIR~BBNTH KBftING 1991-1994 COUNCIL
The following members of Council were present:
Deputy Mayor Ian Beard
Reeve David Caldwell
Deputy Reeve Norman Dalziel
Councillor Donald Bell
Councillor Alastair Crawford
Councillor Murray Martin
Councillor Leonard Mortson
Councillor Joanne Crokam
Absent:
Mayor Robert E. Drury
Councillor Walter Dickie
staff Present:
Kris Menzies, Planner, Gary
Cunnington, Administrator, Andria
Darby, Zoning Administrator.
Also Present Were:
Bruce Duncan, Brian pyette, Gary
Thiess, Earl Robertson, Norm
Guthrie, Pearl Guthrie, Eric
Rechnitzer, vicki Palmer, Howie
Rogers and Shirley Woodrow.
Deputy Mayor Ian Beard chaired the meeting.
Deputy Mayor Ian Beard opened the meeting by explaining to those
present that this Public Meeting was to receive public comments
with respect to a proposed Zoning By-Law Amendment, pursuant to
provisions of the Planning Act, section 34, R.S.O. 1990 c. P. 13.
The applicant has applied to rezone certain lands described as
Part of Block X, Plan 902, Concession 10,(formerly Township of
Oro).
To date, the Council of the Corporation of the Township of Oro-
Medonte have not made a decision on this application, other than
proceeding to this Public Meeting. Only after comments are
received from the Public, requested agencies and Township Staff,
within the appropriate time period, will Council make a decision
on this application.
Notice of the Public Meeting was mailed out on March 17, 1994, to
all property owners within 120 metres of the subject lands.
Notice of the Public Meeting was also placed in both the Barrie
Examiner and Orillia Packet on March 17, 1994.
Deputy Mayor Ian Beard then asked the Clerk if there had been any
correspondence received on this matter. The Clerk responded by
indicating that she had a verbal telephone call this afternoon
from Mr. Jenkins to confirm receipt of several letter of
objection. Unfortunately, the letter had not arrived for this
evening's meeting which also contained 3 - 4 other letters from
area residents objecting as well. The Clerk advised Mr. Jenkins
that when the letters are received they would be presented to
Council prior to consideration of the proposed by-law. In
addition, a letter was also received from the Simcoe County
District Health Unit, stating they had no objection.
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The Deputy Mayor then stated that those persons present would be
afforded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to the
proposed Amendment. He then turned the meeting over to the
Township Planner, Ms. Kris Menzies, to explain the purpose and
effect of the proposed Zoning By-Law Amendment.
Kris Menzies:
Thank you Mr. Deputy Mayor. The purpose of tonight's meeting is
to hear comment from the Public regarding the proposed rezoning.
The effect of the rezoning would be to permit a bed and breakfast
establishment to be located on the property. That is assuming
that Council does pass the Zoning By-law.
To give you a little bit of background, Official Plan Amendment
No. 35 was adopted by the Minister of Municipal Affairs in April
of 1989. This Amendment permitted the concept of bed and
breakfasts to be established in any residence in the
municipality. This Amendment only is effective in the former
Township of Oro. There are different policies relating to bed
and breakfasts in the former Township of Medonte and as well as
the other municipalities which now make up the Township of Oro-
Medonte. One of the requirements in the policy statement which
was adopted by the Minister in 1989 was that a rezoning would
have to be considered by Council prior to the bed and breakfast
establishment starting operation.
The purpose for tonight's meeting is to hear comment on that
rezoning. The concept of the bed and breakfast as proposed by
the owners, Mr. & Mrs. Guthrie, does follow the policy statements
related to the Official Plan and if Council sees favourable
consideration with this zoning, it will conform to the Official
Plan policies.
Mr. Deputy Mayor, Mr. & Mrs. Guthrie are here and they may be
available to comment on any specifics related to the
establishment itself.
Deputy Mayor Beard:
Thank you Kris. Now, we will have questions from anyone who
wants. I would ask you to come forward to the microphone and
state your name so that we can get it in the minutes. Hopefully
this is being recorded and you should use the microphone so it
can be recorded. Any questions?
Eric Rechnitzer:
First of all, is this just a question period or my questions
about the whole exercise?
Deputy Mayor Beard:
Both.
Eric Rechnitzer:
My name is Eric Rechnitzer and I am the next door neighbour. I
live immediately beside them and I can tell you truthfully, I am
not thrilled by having more traffic in the area, more people in
the area. I was robbed this winter, we are still mad about the
boat ramp that was put in at the end of the road and there is too
damn much traffic in the area already. I am concerned that if
this happens with one place, it is going to happen with more
places and the area is just going to become a tourist resort. I
am concerned about property values as a result of this. I also
know, that one comment I want to make is that I think this
meeting is badly planned because the majority of the people in
the area you are talking about are not available. They are
summer residents only, don't really have an opportunity to say
anything except those letters that Mr. Jenkins
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sent, they should be part of this meeting because we all object
to it. I can tell you that I was personally robbed this winter.
Mrs. Palmer who lives next door to me as well has been robbed in
the area and we sometimes consider a part this is just such an
active area with the boat ramp and everything else and we really
don't want a bed and breakfast beside us. with cars coming in
and out day and night, whatever, we just don't want any part of
it and I would also like to ask. The question is, what access do
they have? We have a little road that comes off the ninth, the
driveway to that house comes off that road and I understand that
they may not have access off our road. I would like to ask that
question.
Deputy Mayor Beard:
Mr. Guthrie do you want to respond to that?
respond to that? Mr. Guthrie?
Does anyone want to
Norm Guthrie:
My name is Norm Guthrie and according to the deed that we have
with us of this road is public.
Deputy Mayor Beard:
Ok, any other questions or comments?
Vicki Palmer:
I am a neighbour also.
Deputy Mayor Beard:
Name please?
vicki Palmer:
vicki Palmer and we are 979. I have spoken to Mrs. Kerrigan and
Mr. Kerrigan who are neighbours and they have spoken to the
Petersons' and a few of the other neighbouring cottagers and it
sounds like there is a consensus that, like Eric mentioned, that
nobody is in favour of this sort of establishment in the area
because we feel that it is just a stepping stone. Once the lands
are rezoned for something like a bed and breakfast, it just
leaves an opening for further commercial. I happen to be a real
estate agent and I know that what can happen to values. It is
not even that much to do with values, it is to do with privacy
and security aspects. We had a little, a private little area
down there and it is becoming more and more public. I agree with
Eric, I don't like the ramp down the road, it has created an
awful lot of traffic and it is just not, I don't feel that it is
nice. It is not something that has enhanced our properties at
all. It has deteriorated our property values and I think
something like this, if it should progress into anything further
than a bed and breakfast, could deteriorate even more so the
values. Like I said or like he mentioned, we did have a break in
a couple of years ago and I think the more traffic, the more
strange people in the area, the more chance of something like
this occurring and we would prefer to have it left the way it is.
That is basically all I can say, and Mrs. Kerrigan did say,"you
can talk on our behalf", they can't make it. There is a lot of
elderly folks that live down there and they were not able to make
it. They did write letters in, supposedly you will be getting
them shortly. I would also like to mention that before you
proceed with anything, like as far as passing the By-law, we
might, if Council is in favour of such an establishment, that we
might like to get a legal counselor something to represent us.
So before anything gets passed, could we be notified or, how do
we communicate now? We live down in, we are all, none of us are
up here, that is one of the problems.
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Deputy Mayor Beard:
I believe that your names are all being taken and you can be
advised before..
Kris Menzies:
If that is Council's wishes, I could advise the residents as to
when I am planning to bring the By-law forth. Which in all
likelihood, will be in two weeks. If you want more time, I am
sure Council will accommodate you.
vicki Palmer:
Yes I would appreciate it because like I said the timing is
reaílY poor and most of these residents only come up st~rting
probably in June and it is just not a very convenient t1me for
this sort of decision to be made, I don't think.
Deputy Mayor Beard:
Thank you. I think there is something you might want to reply to
that Kris on the zoning.
Kris Menzies:
Thank you Mr. Deputy Mayor. The purpose of tonight's meeting, as
I said, is to receive Public comment. Council is more than
willing to receive any letters from anyone at such time up until
the point where they look at the By-law. So the residents who
either were not able to make it this evening because of other
commitment or because they are out of town or whatever, they are
more than welcome to write a letter and Council will consider
those letters prior to. I would just suggest, with Council's
discretion, that if the residents would like to have an
opportunity either to have their neighbours write or seek legal
advice, that you provide us with a letter which says, can you
delay it up until a particular date, otherwise, it could be
delayed till infinitum and that is not really fair to the people
who are asking that the zoning of the property be changed.
Eric Rechnitzer:
May I just make one more statement? They have absolutely no
access to the water and I am quite convinced that if they had
guests staying, they will probably want to wander down to the
water and they are going to go through our places. That is my
comment.
Deputy Mayor Beard:
Ok, thank you.
State you name please.
Pearl Guthrie:
Maybe I could allay a few of the concerns that the residents
have. I am sorry, I am Pearl Guthrie and I am the one that is
making the application for the bed and breakfast. This is not
going to be a commercial establishment as such. It is going to
be our home. It is going to be our year round home. We are
certainly not opening it just to any Tom, Dick or Harry that
comes along. As the resident host of a bed and breakfast, we do
have the discretion to either accept or deny people access to the
bed and breakfast.
People who travel bed and breakfasts tend to be older, retired
couples who like the quiet friendly atmosphere. I think with
those kind of people around, you would be a little more likely to
have a safe neighbourhood than you would with some other kinds of
establishments. Plus the fact that we are going to live there
most of the time, other than holidays and so on. I think it is
probably going to be fairly safe. We can only rent three
bedrooms under the Township By-laws in any case. We would have a
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lot more people at home if we had our four kid.s at home all at
once. So, I really don't think when the neighbours consider the
whole thing that they are going to find a problem. We don't plan
on adding on to the property or anything, we just plan on renting
the three spare bedrooms that are in it now and plan on living
there. We plan on keeping the place looking very nice and we are
both going to be retiring and that will be our retirement. I
would be please to answer any other questions.
We don't plan on opening all season or all year. We plan,on
opening sometime between Christmas and New Years and clos1ng
probably about the 15th of March and then opening again about the
15th of June until Thanksgiving and that will be our season.
Deputy Reeve Dalziel:
Mrs. Guthrie, this gentleman here, Eric, is that your first name
or last name?
Eric Rechnitzer:
My first name.
Deputy Reeve Dalziel:
This gentleman indicated that the people getting access to the
water from your bed and breakfast would be traversing his
property.
Pearl Guthrie:
I would expect that they would go through the boat ramp property.
Certainly, that is what we would advise them to do and I
understand that it is public property. I understand that there
is also a park South on the road that they could use for swimming
and picnicking and so on, which I would recommend to them. I
certainly wouldn't advise anybody to go through anyone else
property and if I saw them doing that, I would advise them not
to.
Deputy Mayor Beard:
Any further questions or comments?
vicki Palmer:
My main concern is that once the property has been rezoned to
allow for this establishment, I agree, maybe the Guthrie's will
be good people and do what they are talking about but once it is
open, they can turn around and sell the property in a year. I am
not saying you are going to but that is a possibility.
Circumstances change in peoples lives. Something could happen
and it could be sold and the next people, because it is zoned for
a bed and breakfast, may expand and do whatever they, you know.
We don't know what is going to happen with it in the future and
the fact that it has been rezoned is the problem.
Deputy Mayor Beard:
I think that is what Kris was talking about before but didn't get
around to the site specific.
Kris:
This is a rezoning to a site specific residential use and what a
site specific use means is that there will be an exception to the
By-law. The property currently is zoned general residential
similarly to a lot of the residences down on the shore line. The
site specific nature will say that a single family dwelling unit
is permitted plus three rooms to be rented to the travelling
public.
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vicki Palmer:
What is it going to take to change it from a three room public to
a five room public down the road or to a restaurant? If it has
already got...
Kris Menzies:
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An Official Plan Amendment which requires a Public Meeting,
Council approval, approval of the Minister of Municipal Affairs
and another rezoning. To explain a little bit about what an
Official Plan Amendment is, it is in my opinion as a Planner, a
very stringent and onerous process to go through to change an
Official Plan. It is a document which Council has the first
right of approval or refusal and the ultimate approval of an
Official Plan Amendment lies with the Provincial Government.
This is not a commercial rezoning.
Councillor Martin:
Through the Mayor, to the Guthries', can you tell me how long you
have been in this.
Norm Guthrie:
We have not moved in yet. It has been rented out to the previous
owner and they move out on the 15th and we are just going in to
repaint the place and move in sometime in May.
Deputy Mayor Beard:
Are there any other questions or comments?
you off.
Deputy Reeve Dalziel:
I didn't mean to cut
I see two parties, one wants something and the other people are
adverse to it. I feel that the proponents need to sell the idea
of what they are after to the other people around them. You
could get together and have a clear understanding, you people and
what the Guthries' want to do and then the Guthries understand
what you are adverse to. Then maybe, there could be an
agreement.
Eric Rechnitzer:
The trick is getting all the people that are adverse together.
That is the trick. In a way, we are sort of speaking for them.
Deputy Mayor Beard:
I can understand that, I think that I understand what you said
about the timing.
Reeve Caldwell:
Some of the residents down that expressed a concern about a bed
and breakfast, are you familiar with any other bed and breakfast
operations in the area?
Eric Rechnitzer:
No
Reeve Caldwell:
There is one within two blocks.
Is there a problem with it?
Eric Rechnitzer:
I didn't know there was one.
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Reeve Caldwell:
That is my point. I doubt that you even know there is one. It
is Eleanor Laity and she is on the Lakeshore Road at the end of
Tudhope Drive. That is about two blocks down.
Eric Rechnitzer:
No, I wasn't aware there was one.
Reeve Caldwell:
It has been there, I lived on that street eight to ten years ago
and you wouldn't know it was there. She has been operating for
about ten years now.
I think you are confusing a bed and breakfast with a more
commercial type of operation.
Eric Rechnitzer:
I know other bed and breakfasts.
Reeve Caldwell:
Can you give us some examples of some that are problems, that is
what I would like to know.
Eric Rechnitzer:
Sure, Niagara-on-the-Lake there are a whole bunch.
Reeve Caldwell:
And they are problems?
Eric Rechnitzer:
Sure. My aunt lives right beside one and she said it is a
disaster for them on Niagara-on-the-Lake. I guess a lot depends
on the ownership, physically where it is.
Deputy Mayor Beard:
Any other comments or questions from the Public or Council?
Councillor Mortson:
You people live there through the summer or do you live there
year round?
Eric Rechnitzer:
I am there mostly year round. I sort of go down on Tuesday, back
on Thursday, so I am year round. Most ,the others are strictly
summer.
councillor Mortson:
From say May until September?
Eric Rechnitzer:
Yes, the 24th of May until Thanksgiving.
Deputy Mayor Beard:
Any other questions or comments?
Councillor Martin:
Have you ever stayed at a bed and breakfast?
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Eric Rechnitzer:
Sure.
councillor Martin:
How do you feel about them?
,i Eric Rechnitzer:
Where I stayed in a bed and breakfast was in England. They are
designed a little differently. They are almost a mini motels or
mini hotels.
There being no further questions or comments, when being called
for the third time, the Deputy Mayor in closing the meeting,
thanked those in attendance for their participation and advised
that council would consider all matters before reaching a
decision. He then advised those present that if they wished to
be notified of the passing of the proposed By-law, they should
leave their name and address with the Clerk and I would presume
that you people will do that so that you can be advised of what
is going on.
MOTION NO.1
Moved by Caldwell, seconded by Martin
Be it resolved that this special Public Meeting of Council (Part
of Block X, Plan 902, Concession 10, formerly Oro) now be
adjourned @ 7:28 p.m.
carried.
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DEPUTY MAYOR I BEARD
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ACL RK, DARLENE SHOEBRIDGE