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03 02 1994 Sp Public2 Minutes TKB CORPORATJ:ON 01' TKB TOWNSBJ:P 01' ORO-IIBDON'l'B SPBCJ:AL PUBLJ:C lOIftJ:NG w:amœSDAY * KARCH 2 * 1994 (t 7:33 P.M. - COUNCJ:L CDDDS NJ:NTB lOIftJ:NG 1991-1994 COUNCJ:L The following members of Council were present: Mayor Robert E. Drury Deputy Mayor Ian Beard Reeve David Caldwell Deputy Reeve Norman Dalziel Councillor Donald Bell Councillor Alastair Crawford Councillor Joanne Crokam Councillor Walter Dickie Councillor Murray Martin Councillor Leonard Mortson staff Present: Kris Menzies, Planner, Mr. Gary Cunnington, Administrator, Andria Darby, zoning Administrator Also Present Were: R. Allan sinton, Donald Hewgill, Margaret Hewgill, Andrew Goode, Larry Herr, Jean Crawford, shirley Woodrow, Edward M. Hall, John Hare, Gary Thiess and Graeme Clark Mayor Robert E. Drury chaired the meeting. Mayor Robert E. Drury opened the meeting by explaining to those present that this Public Meeting was to receive public comments with respect to a proposed Zoning By-Law Amendment, pursuant to provisions of the Planning Act, 1983, Section 34 (12). The applicant has applied to rezone certain lands described as Part Lot 2, Concession 4, formerly Oro. To date, the Council of the corporation of the Township of Oro- Medonte have not made a decision on this application, other than proceeding to this Public Meeting. Only after comments are received from the Public, requested agencies and Township Staff, within the appropriate time period, will Council make a decision on this application. Notice of the Public Meeting was mailed out on February 10,1994, to all property owners within 120 metres of the subject lands. Notice of the Public Meeting was also placed in both the Barrie Examiner and Orillia Packet on February 10, 1994. Mayor Robert E. Drury then asked the Clerk if there had been any correspondence received on this matter. The Clerk responded by indicating that one letter had been received from the Simcoe County District Health unit stating the following: ( 1) First stage of development will be serviced by an inground sewage system, subject to feasibility and proved through various reports and consultation with engineers. (2) Further development will be allowed based on the proposed S.B.R. sewage system and/or inground Class A system. Reasonable use and other requirements under the Environmental Protection Act will have to be met prior to approval. .l - 2 - (3 ) Overall no objection subject to feasibility. The Mayor then stated that those persons present would be afforded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to the proposed Amendment. He then turned the meeting over to the Township Planner, Ms. Kris Menzies, to explain the purpose and effect of the proposed Zoning By-Law Amendment. Kris Menzies: Thank you Your Worship, the subject property is located on Part Lot 2, Concession 4, in the former Township of Oro. As discussed in the previous Public Meeting, there was an error on the part of the Barrie Examiner in placing the appropriate site with the appropriate text in the Public Meeting Notice. The Notices which were delivered to the area residents were correct. The purpose of tonight's meeting is to afford council the opportunity to hear Public comment on a rezoning on the subject lands, prior to making a decision. The property is designated a medium density residential designation in the Township of Oro Official Plan. Currently the property is zoned Rural. This zoning does not conform to the Township plans. The proposal is to do a two part rezoning. A portion of the property would be rezoned from Rural to a recreation and open space zone to allow for a recreational complex to be built. The second portion of the zoning would rezone the property to medium density residential zone to permit the development of stacked town houses. It is my understanding Mr. Mayor and Council, that the purpose of the stacked town houses from a marketing stand point is for time share units not permanent residential units. The subj ect property fronts on to the 3 rd Concession which is a County Road as well as has some small frontage onto an internal road which is currently within the Horseshoe Highlands. Mr. Clark is going to put up a coloured diagram which the public will be able to see a little bit better. I wanted to point out on this diagram if I could Mr. Mayor, the property is proposed to be developed in stages and it could be seen by Mr. Bruce's comments from the Health Uni t. He spoke about two different types of sewage disposal systems. The first sewage disposal system proposed is a Class 4 system which is a typical tiled field system. This would be developed for the first phase. As it stands today, the first phase is proposed to be located on the - 3 - County Road, approximately 28 units. Alternate sewage disposal systems would be required for the development of the additional phases. When the applicant, if Council sees favour to proceed with this application after this Public Meeting, it is bound to detailed Engineering design. This phase may change to the requirements from the Health unit at the County. And, I wanted to take that opportunity right now Mr. Mayor, to point that out to the Public because the Notices that were received, specifically stated that this was proposed to be in a MDR zone. The balance of the site where the residential units are proposed are proposed to be in a MDR Hold zone. No development can take place in the hold zone until certain trigger mechanisms are satisf ied one of which would be the development of the balance of the site on an acceptable sewage treatment facility. So I just wanted to point out that this may shift, depending how the detailed engineering goes assuming the application goes after this Public Hearing. Mayor Drury Thank you Kris. Mr. Clark. Graeme Clark Thank you Mr. Mayor. I would like to refer to this master plan so that everybody understands where the site is located. This is Horseshoe Valley Road, 4th Line, Highland Dr. comes in here. The existing first hole is right here. The site is located through here. The water tower currently sits right in that location, so this is the site which is bound on the South side by the Golf course and on the North side by the Ridge. This particular plan shows the overall proposed development at completion, that is a vacation ownership or time share proposal. This shows the top of the Ridge and this is a very accurate representation of where the top of the Ridge is. The idea is that there would be one access coming in at this point from Highland Dr. and another access coming in from County Road 57 in through the site this way. The initial phase that is contemplated at this moment would be in here and the Class 4 septic bed and tank system is located across the road. We own 104 acre site on the other side of the road which we would propose to put the septic bed and tank on. As after we have, as we develop - 4 - or wish to develop this site, the idea would be that we would have to have an alternate form of sewage treatment which at this point in time we believe will be an SBR sequential batch reactor system which will allow us to develop the site as it moves on. Because of the type of project which is being envisaged, that is time share, it takes quite a considerable time to sell these units. Each block and this is a block of six units, three across and two high, that would be three hundred weeks of time share. The current time share project that we have in the valley is forty units which is two thousand weeks and it takes some years, we believe, to fully build out this particular proj ect. The first phase we would expect to take two years to build out and we would hope to do a significant amount of the ground work prior to that and particularly we would like to be able to re-link some of the trail systems which were destroyed when we were doing the subdivision immediately to the South of this and we would like to try and be able to re-link some of the trails that come down into the valley at various locations and link it back to the heart of the resort. The first phase, which again, this is our intended first phase which shows the entrance coming in from County Road 57, turning circle two blocks located this way. As sales develop we would move them that direction. There is also a recreation complex anticipated to form part of this development and we would have to look into the actual legal site of the agreement. It has always been to develop the valley club in various locations and this would be one of the proposed locations from the legal stand point with respect to the way the agreements are written up if that is allowed. The general architectural concept that we have for this project is developed on a site visit where we visit a number of other time share resorts. And I might add, one of which is just being built which we thought was very similar to our own project we really liked and it was Fairmount Resorts, Fairmount Hot springs in British Columbia. This is maybe difficult for you to see from there, but I would ask you to come over so you can get a chance to look at it. It gives you an idea of the type of construction that we are considering. This particular - 5 - resort is located right on various holes of the golf course in Fairmount and the idea is again, two stories with the occasional third story for a couple units. The idea of the white stucco and the red tile roof is again we are interested in the clean lines and it would be appropriate for the valley. So that generally speaking, with the architectural finishes, these units are, would be 1450 sq ft. two bedroom units. I don't think I have anything else to add Mr. Mayor. Mayor Drury Thank you Mr. Clark. Any questions, comments or concerns from the Public Please come to the mike and state your name please for the record. Ed Hall My name is Ed Hall and I live in Oro now Oro-Medonte. Mr. Clark, you mentioned six units per building? Graeme Clark When this first phase, there are six units in this building and this one there would be at least two units. Just one wider. Ed Hall So six to eight units per building then? And how many buildings are you talking in total? I counted twenty two. Graeme clark There are probably that number, I have never counted them before. The number of units proposed here are 172 in total. Between all these units, there are 172 units. Ed Hall At which phase of Horseshoe Highlands development is this? I have phase 1, 2, 2B, 3, 4A and 4B, is it one of those? Graeme Clark It is one of the 3. Three is broken down into 3A, B, C, D and E. This would be 3B and 3E. Ed Hall Ok, well I see phase 3 here with a total of 443 units? Graeme Clark The Phase that you are referring to is this piece of land here. That is the 443. Ed Hall That is the 443? What is the 122 then? In this list that you are talking about here, Phase 1 is 68 units. Graeme Clark Phase 1 is, that is Cherry Court. Ed Hall Ok, Phase 2 is 38 units? Graeme Clark That is Valley Crest. the area right here. It is in Ed Hall Phase 2B is 8 units. - 6 - Graeme Clark Phase 2B is a unit, section right in there. a small Ed Hall Ok, Phase 3 is 443 units? Graeme Clark That is this phase here is the one I believe you are referring to of 443 units. Ed Hall Is that not the one you indicated was 8 units, Kris Menzies No that is 2B. Ed Hall Phase 4A - 192 Graeme Clark Phase 4A is the existing subdivision Highland Developing. Ed Hall Ok and Phase 4B - 284. Graeme Clark That is single family. Ed Hall Ok so this is an additional one you are talking about here, the 122. Graeme Clark This is this site here yes. Ed Hall Not included in this list I just mentioned. Graeme Clark That is correct. Ed Hall Ok, I guess it would be appropriate to explain my concerns at this point. My understanding or my count is Horseshoe Highlands already has approved or in process some 1,038 units, that is a lot of people. And now we are looking at adding another 122. I know, I wanted to ask, what is the occupancy presently of the 138 that are approved or pending? How many have people in them today? Graeme Clark Of the 138? Ed Hall Of the 1,038. The five, the six I read off here. Graeme Clark There are approximately 60 between 60 and 70 homes built and occupied. Ed Hall Out of 1,038. Well 60 out of 1,038 houses, I think we have lots of capacity approved ahead of us without rushing into this 122. But I have a real concern, an environmental one as usual, if you build 122 time share units, I guess it is going to be some better septic system that will be in effect by that time but you could have 28, you are looking at 28 units time share on the septic system. Septic systems are bad news when you put city Slickers in them to start with because they do not often realize that they are on a septic system and pour grease - 7 - and plastic materials down the drain. If you have a time share thing where nobody is really responsible for it, they are there for a couple of days or a weekend, they really don't care. So I think that in practically no time at all the septic system will fail and I am concerned about the effect of this raw sewage being dumped in large volume, into the system. As Mr. Beard eluded to, it is going to find its way into the system down below and in wells and who knows how far it will go. Once that crud is in the system, it is not going to go away. That is my principal concern from this point as well as the population density. I don't like to see it happening in our area because the impact in Horseshoe Valley Road which others have expressed most eloquently. I don't think there is any rush when we have got 1,038 units already approved in this immediate vicinity, I don't think we should even be considering any more at this point. Thank you. Mayor Drury Other comments, questions or concerns from the Public? Council members. Deputy Mayor Beard. Deputy Mayor Beard My comments are the same as stated at the Public Meeting earlier tonight. Mayor Drury Anyone else? Councillor Crawford? councillor Crawford The only comment I would make is that the idea is to get mixed and this is a different type of development than single family development, you get a mix in there that gives different people access to the Valley and to the recreational areas there, they all don't own a home but they might want to take a time share and this is different. That is the only comment I would make as far as this particular development is concerned. Mayor Drury Councillor Dickie. Councillor Dickie I would like to direct this to him (Graeme) if I might here. Your marketing efforts of time share has that had any effect in recent economic downturn and how confident are you of selling this first phase. Graeme Clark I would like to answer that question Mr. Mayor, Councillor Dickie, in two ways or in two parts actually. First of all, our studies have shown that the one thing that has been selling through the last four - 8 - or five years of the recession is time share. A ten to twelve per cent growth over the years. We already have a very successful time share (Gold Kernel Award) resort and we have been urged for years to bring forward a new project. So we believe from that point that it will be successful. However, we have engaged a group called Lexus Leisure Group who are recommended to us by R.C.I. which is Resorts Condominium International. They are the biggest time share exchange company in the world. This Lexus Leisure Group were probably the most knowledgable of time share sales and marketing and business and particulars and we have engaged them to prepare a business plan for us and that business plan will be ready in the next couple of weeks. The concept that we have shown them on the business plan is that we are very excited about it and we believe that it is extremely marketable. Mayor Drury Any questions, comments or concerns? Deputy Mayor Beard. Deputy Mayor Beard You were in the process of getting an SBR designed and approved at one point in Medonte is that, to your knowledge, can they be approved in the Province of ontario? Mayor Drury I can answer that, one has been approved in Oro Township at the Guthrie School recently. Deputy Mayor Beard If I may comment on that, I believe that was the only one that was going to be approved in the Province of ontario as a trial basis, I was wondering if anybody else had heard that or had that information? Graeme Clark Mr. Deputy Mayor, I have every belief that the application that we have put in for a SBR will be approved. That belief is based on the fact of the various conversations that we have had with the Ministry. When we attended a meeting in June of last year, which was also attended by Mr. cunnington and Medonte Township's Engineer, we were told at that point in time that they had full knowledge of SBR technology, they were quite comfortable with it, but their main concern was that the developer and the Township didn't seem to have our act together and that if we didn't know how many uni ts we wanted to put into the system and they asked us to go back and agree on that, which I .l " - 9 - believe we did, based on studies by our Engineers and supported by the Township of Medonte Engineers and we then re-submi tted an addendum quote to the initial very bulky report that was put in place. At that point and time, I was told by the M.O.E. District Engineer who was dealing with the case that he felt that everything was now in place, I gave them the appropriate cheque and various other small documents that he requested and he thought that the approval would be granted within a two month period. That period expired at the end of November and we have been chasing ever since, I believe at this point and time it is sitting on somebodies desk at M.O.E. Approvals Branch in Toronto and my one consultants are chasing them on a daily basis. That is as much as I know and that is up to today, Mr. Deputy Mayor. Mayor Drury Mr. Clark could you explain to the Public here what an SBR so that they have an idea what we are talking about. Graeme Clark An SBR is, S.B.R. stands for Sequential Batch Reactor and the best way of describing it is like a giant washing machine or dishwasher. It accepts in a tank a certain amount of effluent, it goes through everything that is required is within that tank, it goes through a computerized treatment process within the tank and is then discharged as sludge to a sludge holding tank which then is transported to a sewage treatment plant for further treatment and digestment and the treated effluent is skimmed off and it then goes into a filtration bed which is normal or typical to any other filtration bed or septic bed. This is a septic bed, sorry, a filtration bed, no further treatment is required in the bed as the discharged effluent or the treated effluent must already have reached a capaci ty which is acceptable to the discharge into the groundwater. The bed is merely only at the discretion of M.O.E. The site for the proposed is right up here on the North of the lands and we would as part of the approval we would be required to put monitoring wells right along the boundary and on the upside so that there could be constant monitoring to make sure that the level of ni trates and phosphates would not be adversely affected. There was a belief, because of common tile beds systems within the valley, and part of the discussion we had the " - 10 - Township of Medonte was to try and sol ve this problem by over time being able to put these common tile fields into this bed and the Township Engineer at that time made a comment to MOE that the background nitrate would probably be improved by the removal of these beds and treatment through the SBR. MEMBER OF PUBLIC Why wasn't that system being used for the (inaudible). Graeme Clark I am sorry. problem. I am not aware of the Mayor Drury respond Deputy Mayor Beard, he wishes to here. Deputy Mayor Beard The problem is, this technology was developed in Canada, I believe in ontario and is now mostly used in ontario and apparently the stuff that comes out of there with the exception of maybe phosphorous and nitrates, you may be concerned with that, is almost fit to drink. They don't allow you in Ontario, so much sewage or septic tanks. Mayor Drury Deputy Reeve Dalziel. Deputy Reeve Dalziel Mr. Mayor, time shares are a component of tour ism and I read more and more about the need to promote tourism, I read about it for simcoe County and I think that you are going to see that in the County in the future that tourism is going to be emphasised and promoted. Mayor Drury Thank you, Councillor Martin. Councillor Martin To the Mayor, to Graeme, does the reactor have to have so many gallons in it before it will work properly? Graeme Clark The answer to that question as I understand it, is that it can be designed that once there is a certain amount of effluent in the tank they then through the computerization reset the limits as to it will fill to a certain point and then it will go through the cycle. It can handle very small amounts, I think is the answer to your questions. Once it has got to level 1 if you say, at that point the computer clicks in and when it reaches level 2 it will then go through a reaction process and deal with that effluent and at that point it will discharge. That is my understanding and that is the reason why this particular technology is very good for our type of situation in order to go - 11 - out and develop a full blown sewage treatment plant to digest, it would be a huge up front cost and it takes you years to consume the capacity, with this you can deal with much smaller amounts and you can treat the effluent much more effectively. Mayor Drury Any further questions, comments? Mr. Hall. Ed Hall If you do decide to go ahead with this temporary septic system, I would recommend that you consider putting in monitoring wells in around the septic system as I, my guess is that it will fail very quickly and you will have raw sewage going right into the ground. I think you should require monitoring of this tile bed so you know immediately the affects. Mayor Drury Thank you. Further comments questions? Mr. Clark. or Graeme Clark Mr. Mayor, in reference to some of the numbers Mr. Hall mentioned, the 443 unit medium density site is here. The draft plan application was made on that site many years ago prior to the current management and on a request from MMA to me about a year to fifteen months ago, they asked if there was any likelihood of that going forward in its' submitted form. I told them that I didn't believe so mainly because of sewage treatment concerns and also the fact that it also contained a part of land over here and we withdrew that draft plan application. There being no further questions or comments, when being called for the third time, the Mayor in closing the meeting, thanked those in attendance for their participation and advised that Council would consider all matters before reaching a decision. He then advised those present that if they wished to be notified of the passing of the proposed By-law, they should leave their name and address with the Clerk. Motion No.1 Moved by Beard, seconded by Dalziel Be it resolved that this Special Public Meeting of council (Part Lot 2, Concession 4, formerly Oro) now be adjourned @ 8:01 p.m. Carried. /) i ;/ &~:~~i~~~~{~~~l RO