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03 02 1994 Sp Public Minutes II' . I I I I TIUI CORPORATION 01' TIUI TODSBIP OJ' œo-lIIIDOftB 8PBCDL PUBLIC lIBftIRG WBDBBSDAY, KARCH 2, 1994 . 7:00 P.K. - COUNCIL CDlIBBRS BIGBTH KBBTIHG 1991-1994 COUNCIL The following members of Council were present: Mayor Robert E. Drury Deputy Mayor Ian Beard Reeve David Caldwell Deputy Reeve Norman Dalziel Councillor Donald Bell Councillor Alastair Crawford Councillor Joanne Crokam Councillor Walter Dickie Councillor Murray Martin Councillor Leonard Mortson staff Present: Kris Menzies, Planner, Mr. Gary Cunnington, Administrator, Andria Darby, Zoning Administrator Also Present Were: R. Allan sinton, Donald Hewgill, Margaret Hewgill, Andrew Goode, Larry Herr, Jean Crawford, shirley Woodrow, Edward M. Hall, John Hare, Gary Thiess and Graeme Clark Mayor Robert E. Drury chaired the meeting. Mayor Robert E. Drury opened the meeting by explaining to those present that this Public Meeting was to receive public comments with respect to a proposed Zoning By-Law Amendment, pursuant to provisions of the Planning Act, 1983, section 34 (12). The applicant has applied to rezone certain lands described as Part Lot 1, Concession 5, formerlyoro. To date, the Council of the Corporation of the Township of Oro- Medonte have not made a decision on this application, other than proceeding to this Public Meeting. Only after comments are received from the Public, requested agencies and Township Staff, within the appropriate time period, will Council make a decision on this application. Notice of the Public Meeting was mailed out on February 10, 1994, to all property owners within 120 metres of the subject lands. Notice of the Public Meeting was also placed in both the Barrie Examiner and Orillia Packet on February 10, 1994. Mayor Robert E. Drury then asked the Clerk if there had been any correspondence received on this matter. The Clerk responded by indicating that two letters had been received as follows: County of Simcoe Engineering/Planning Depts. stating two condition of approval: 1. Access not permitted from County Rd. 22 therefore all access should be from the 4th Concession. 2. Traffic Impact Study required to determine impact on County Road and intersection with the 4th Concession. - 2 - Simcoe County District Health Unit No objection provided development is for dry use and subject to feasibility. The Mayor then stated that those persons present would be afforded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to the proposed Zoning Amendment. He then turned the meeting over to the Township Planner, Ms. Kris Menzies, to explain the purpose and effect of the proposed Zoning By-Law Amendment. Kris Menzies: Thank you Your Worship. The first thing I would like to explain at the discretion of Council is, some people in the audience may have received something in the mail regarding the Notice of this Hearing, other people may be here, Mr. Mayor and members of council, because of a Notice they saw in the either Barrie Examiner or the Orillia Packet and Times. The Barrie Examiner inadvertently switched the sites related to the individual Notice. One of the Notices explained that there would be a Public Meeting held at 7:00 o'clock regarding a retail complex and they showed a map of a residential development. The other Notice said there would be a Public Meeting held at 7:15 for a residential development and showed a map regarding a retail complex. The Notices that went to individuals were done correctly as well as the Notices in the Orillia Packet and Times. The purpose of tonight's Public Meeting is to afford Council opportunity to hear from the Public prior to making a decision on this application. The property is located in Part Lot 1, Concession 4 of the Township of Oro and is located on the corner of County Road 22 and the 4th Line. The request is for a rezoning to a site specific resort commercial zone. The property is currently designated resort commercial in the Township of Oro Official Plan and it is zoned Rural in the Township Zoning By-law. The request for the site specific element would allow all the permitted uses in the resort commercial zone that is currently contemplated in the Township of Oro Zoning By-law, plus five additional uses. These five additional uses are a take-out food restaurant, a pharmacy, a doctor or dentist office, a chiropractor, a medical lab and a food store. The Official Plan would support such a rezoning. - 3 - Your Worship, Mr. Graeme Clark is here from the Resort Corporation and he has some information regarding some specifics concerning the development. Mayor Drury Thank you Kris, Mr. Clark. Graeme Clark Thank you Mr. Mayor. The specific site that Kris is referring to is this site here on the corner of County Road 22 the Horseshoe Valley Road and the 4th Line of Oro and is the red section and is part of the lands which are in this area here. The plan which we drew up for the project for presentation to the Planning Committee and to Council was a conceptual plan and the idea is to develop between 35,000 and 40,000 sq. ft. of commercial space on this corner. The buildings would be located on the western boundary and the northern boundary with all the parking being in the front adjacent to Oro 4th Line. The access point through the site would be from the 4th Line and this position here for this access is somewhat flexible. If required, we could move it further away from County Road 22. The overall concept or the overall development plan for Horseshoe Resort contemplates a variety of uses and one of them is commercial. At this point in the development we felt that it was time to bring a commercial component on. There are a significant number of residents in the area and we felt that based on that and questions we have had from potential purchasers of lots that people are interested in building with respect to where we would get a doctor or dentist or convenience store. Also, we felt that it was time to produce land that was servicing those requirement as the development is progressing. This project shows the entire use of the site at the moment and it refers to the comments of Mr. Bruce of the Health unit. We would only be allowed 4500 litres per day of sewage and this would not allow the full development of this site, in fact, it would probably allow approximately that lot size of development at this stage. The proposed class 4 tank and bed that we would use to service this piece of the project would be located on this part of the site which is in this yellow area and we would dedicate that piece of land as unable to be used in any other manner until such time as an SBR system was approved and constructed - 4 - We have a significant interest from potential purchasers or occupiers of the space and these include principally a dentist, a pharmacist and they are the ones we are specifically dealing with at this point in time. But we have a little interest from people interested in convenience foods, an optical outlet, a chiropractor, physiotherapist and a massage therapist. At this point in time we would need to determine the requirements of the dentist and the pharmacist and to find out how much capacity we have in the Class 4 system before we are able to move forward with any of the other interested parties. Mayor Drury Thank you Graeme. I will now open the floor up to questions from the Public and I would ask the Public to please state their name clearly as the meeting is being taped and we have found with Council members questions there was some confusion when the last ones were transcribed. Please raise your hand and I will identify you for tape recording so the person that is transcribing will state who spoke. Questions from the public, comments, concerns? This gentleman here please. Andrew Goode My name is Andrew Goode, I am at 7 Cathedral pine across the road. First of all, I was a little surprised to hear that the mailers went out. We certainly did not receive one and probably we are closest to this piece of property. My first question before I ask any other is if somebody could just explain what point in the process we are at. Is this a Public Meeting? Has application for rezoning already been accomplished? I would just like some idea. Mayor Drury I will refer that question to our Planner for clarification. Thank you for the question. Kris Menzies The way the process works in Oro is partially legislated by the Provincial Government through the Planning Act. There is some individual nuances that individual Municipalities can do. At the moment, this process is at a formal Public Meeting which is required by the Planning Act. The Applicant has made application, they have made a delegation to Oro's Planning Advisory Committee, as well, - 5 - because of the impending amalgamation, a second delegation with a presentation as to what is proposed was made to the then Joint Planning Committee which is a little unusual because amalgamation doesn't happen every day. Prior to Council making a decision as to whether the by-law should be passed, they like to have and are required to have input from the public. This is the formal Public Meeting process. No decision on the application has yet been made by Council but yes, a formal application has been made. Mayor Drury Does that clarify that for you? Andrew Goode Sure. Mayor Drury If that leads to any other questions, feel free to ask. Any questions, comments from the Public? John Hare I am John Hare and I am representing the Jarratt-Coulson District Community Group. Our main concern about this is basically the traffic flow. Due to the fact that a few years ago at Craighurst there wasn't anything, then we had a flashing light and now we have stop lights, so how long is it before we have them on Horseshoe Valley Road, it is one of our concerns for the future. I have a letter that I would like to read. Dear Sirs: We are writing to express our concern for the site selected for a shopping plaza near the East crest of Horseshoe Valley. Our concern is the potential for traffic congestion at an intersection close to but hidden from East bound traffic. We do not see the addition of a traffic light as a solution to the problem. We believe rather that it may complicate the hazard in that traffic could pile up at the East bound approach to the extent that cars or worse still, transport trucks could be stopped at the top of the hill. In slippery weather this could have a disastrous result! We suggest that to avoid this problem an alternate location for this plaza be selected. Would it not be possible to locate it in the valley on the North side of Horseshoe Valley Road? In this location, any resulting traffic congestion would be clearly visible to approaching traffic from both East and West. A traffic light and turning lanes should also be added - 6 - to bring order, improved safety and predictability to the traffic flow. It would provide the additional benefit of eliminating the hazard of stopped traffic on the East crest of Horseshoe Valley. We thank you for the opportunity to express our views and we respectfully request adoption of our proposal. Mayor Drury I would ask once again that the Clerk read the letter from the County Engineers please. Could you read it please? John Hare Could I just say - The worst concern I have up there is that we know that Horseshoe Valley is going to expand, we know that something like this, the people are going to demand. But what we are afraid of is the congestion on Horseshoe Valley Road like now there are transport trucks and gravel trucks and everything in travel we have and the thing is the increase in population and increase of everything, a lot of serious traffic, should be looked at in order to not have any headaches in the future. Mayor Drury Thank you for your submissions. Madam Clerk. Clerk (read County Engineer's correspondence) Mayor Drury Donald Hewqill This gentleman here, go ahead. Thank you Mr. Mayor. My name is Donald Hewgill, I am a resident of Horseshoe Valley and have been for the past 12 years. I live on Pine Ridge Trail. I would like to say first of all that I commend Horseshoe Valley Resorts in bringing to the valley some form of commercial services. I don't object as a property owner to have these services coming because I think they are somewhat overdue, although all of us have certainly made due with Craighurst and with Coulson and all the other local stores, they have been great. The concern I have is the one that this gentleman raised. I travel that road, I travel it everyday, twice a day towards Orillia, so I do that East bound situation. The traffic flow on that road has increased dramatically in the past twelve years. I am sure a lot of you gentlemen, that is not news to you. It is scary as to the number of near misses that occur on that road now and principally the worst part - 7 - of the road is between Horseshoe Valley and Prices Corners. Going in the opposite direction is, it is a little better and I think it is because of the high crown of the road. I am concerned, very seriously concerned about the location of this commercial development. While it is true that they are proposing that the entrance be off the 4th, nevertheless, we are going to have a lot more traffic trying to come on to County Road 22 at this point. We may even reach a stage, I perish the thought, but we may reach a stage where we are looking at putting in a light there. I can't see a light going in there quite frankly, with that steep hill that you have to climb out. By the way, at the legal speed limit of 80 km/hr. and let me tell you there is not too many cars that do that, at the legal speed limit, you have about 5 seconds from the time you get to the top of the hill till you reach that corner. I have timed it myself. You just have a split second to get there and that is why accidents do occur at that corner. It is a very dangerous road now. By putting in this commercial development there, I think we are going to increase even though we have got the traffic flow coming in off the 4th. So, I would hope that you seriously consider that and if the Resort corporation as well, would consider an alternative location for the people of the valley and the surrounding area. Thank you. Mayor Drury Thank you. Any questions, comments or concerns? Andrew Goode I am from 7 Cathedral. My concerns are I think a different level and it is the overall concept that is also being considered under Amendment #39. It seems to me from a straight Planning point of view, it is difficult to deal with this as the first example. until the bigger story of Horseshoe Valley Road has been told, that bigger story may in fact point to nodes of development with natural stopping points. It seems to me that is a basic contradiction and is maybe what the County is looking for on that road and that the County's priority may be to get people from Toronto to Muskoka and get trucks from Muskoka to Collingwood. So, we have a basic problem of what is that Horseshoe Valley Road trying to be? If part of the concept is the development - 8 - Mayor Drury of a corridor of growth with nodes of development, then I think it becomes absolutely crucial within the valley to figure out where that proper node is. I am not convinced that it is at the top of the hill, I am more convinced that it is at the bottom of the hill. It seems to me that if a commercial development is going to be a success then you put it where the people are. The people are at the bottom of the hill and they are being attracted there by many, many other forms of development in the valley. Putting it at the top of the hill is simply pulling a lot more people from the bottom of the valley up to the top of the valley and creating a second intersection which is just increasing the problems of traffic congestion. Especially if the County will not reconsider their stance that this is a through arterial route. I think that basic contradiction in values between your approach to it as a corridor of development nodes and the County's approach to it as a thoroughfare, are really the questions at hand. It seems to me that it is a dangerous contradiction to have in front of you to then turn around and deal with an individual development ahead of that overall story and study. Thank you. Anything else from the public? Ok I will allow Council members then and then I will go back to public once again. council members? Deputy Reeve Dalziel. Deputy Reeve Dalziel Mr. Mayor, my neighbours and the rest of the public, Mr. Goode has mentioned that people are living in the valley. That may be the correct statement for today and if I remember Kris, the number of lots for Horseshoe Valley in total is getting close to a thousand and many of those lots are still unoccupied and are between the 4th Concession and the 3rd Concession running fairly closely to Bass Lake Road. So if we look ahead, I think you are going to find that the majority of the people may be living South of the present valley. Now, there is also the possibility of 250 townhouses that would be in the valley itself. One of the wild thoughts that came to my mind, that maybe instead of having this development on the 4th, maybe it should be over at the 3rd, and then when I look at the topography at the 3rd, there are complications - 9 - with the location as far as traffic is concerned and I think our decision has to be based on what we see 25 years ahead. Mayor Drury Thank you Deputy Reeve Dalziel, that reconfirms, I guess that a traffic study is going to be warranted for that section of the project. Any questions Council members? Councillor Mortson. Councillor Mortson Yes, I just went up there and looked at it and we have a divided entrance into Cathedral pines and we have a divided entrance onto the 4th, and I think that it maybe does complicate it. How do you feel about that Councillor Dalziel? If there was one entrance into each, into the 4th instead of divided, this complicates traffic more when there is divided entrances? Mayor Drury Deputy Reeve Dalziel? Deputy Reeve Dalziel Mr. Mayor, the only time I am concerned with the boulevards is when I am going out or coming in and I find out that somebody else doesn't know what the proper pattern is. So, I think the boulevards are an advantage, though, I will never understand why the Township of Oro put down so much asphalt on the Oro side. Mayor Drury I guess it was cheap then. Councillor Crawford. Councillor Crawford Mr. Dalziel touched on one of the points that I was going to make and that is that most of the development in that area access the 4th Line. So anyone going to that commercial entrance or most people from the Horseshoe Valley development area would access that by the 4th Line and wouldn't touch the Horseshoe Valley Road at all. So I can see maybe 15% of the business would be coming out on the 4th Line from the development from as far through as the 3rd, the roads all go through to the 4th Line and would not even use the Horseshoe Valley Road. Now to move it from there to the North side of Horseshoe Valley Road in the bottom of the valley, would be disastrous as far as I am concerned, because, then you would travel everybody across that road from the South side and all your development. I see this on the 4th Line as an attempt to keep the people from the valley that would be using the facilities off the Horseshoe Valley Road by accessing onto the 4th Line. If you know the I- , . - 10 - development well, you will know that all the roads from that whole development lead onto the 4th Line, right through from the 3rd all the way through and in the future as development charges come in, roads South to #11 Highway, down the 3rd Line, down some of the other ways will be getting access for a lot of that traffic. To go to Barrie or to go to #11 Highway or South, down through the Township rather than on the Horseshoe Valley Road. So I can see those things happening in the future. Those are just the comments that I would like to make in as far as traffic patterns are concerned, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Drury Thank you. Reeve Caldwell. Reeve Caldwell Mr. Mayor, I, like Mr. Goode, did not receive a specific Notice although I live in Horseshoe Highlands myself, although I just moved there recently. One of the things I wondered when we are looking at this type of development is, the County engineer is going to look at widening Horseshoe Valley Road and putting access and egress lanes at that intersection. So the traffic is turning off as a place to get to, so all the through traffic can go through. It may not be required now but perhaps the land should be acquired now before the development takes place. I think that we should be discussing that with the County Engineering Department before any final decisions are made. As far as the location of this site or any other site up there, I can't imagine locating it in the valley. It is bad enough, and I use that road everyday myself, and I have used it for a number of years without living there and going down into that valley and have to deal with more traffic that is slowing down and stopping to turn, it will simply compound the situation in the valley and I think that the appropriate place is to have it either off of the 3rd or the 4th Concession and the topography off the 3rd is just terrible in terms of trying to develop and I don't see much other alternative other than the one that is there. So I think there are things we can do that is bound to make it a lot safer. Thank you. Mayor Drury Any comments, questions? Reeve Dalziel. Deputy . , - 11 - Deputy Reeve Dalziel Mr. Mayor, the Deputy Mayor has made a viable statement when he talks about turning lanes. I am sorry, I called him Deputy Mayor, I mean Deputy Reeve. I can see a lane, a slow lane coming up both hills in that valley and again that would be within a few year period. You are going to need two more lanes that are not there at the present time. Mayor Drury Thank you, Deputy Mayor Beard. Deputy Mayor Beard Well I think the concerns I have, although this is relatively minor, is that you have approximately 1000 lots, I believe, South of Horseshoe Valley that are ready for development, some of them have been built on and some of them have not. Kris Menzies They will be ready at some time. Some of them don't have plans on them but that is the approximate numbers. That is correct. Deputy Mayor Beard So you have 1000 houses there and you have I don't know how many in the valley? You got the potential for 250 more on the North side of the road, townhouses, plus they are asking later tonight for another bunch of time share units. My concern is that I am wondering what the cumulative effect, if all this development and if there has been a study done, what the cumulative effect is on the water table, on the Copeland Forest, on the traffic, on the Township in general and quite frankly, I think it is necessary in that area to have a commercial strip or whatever you want to call it. I think the cumulative effect of this whole development has never been done and before any more is done. I think that should be done to tell us what is being done to the environment and the water aquifers. Mayor Drury Thank you for your comments. Lets try to keep our comments specific to the amendment before us this evening if we can. Members of the Public? Mr. Hare. John Hare In our letter we mentioned that down at the bottom on the North side, years ago when I worked for the Township, Mr. Bill Loharu was one of the main concerned ones in Horseshoe Valley and Bill told me then that there was suppose to be a area at the bottom of the hill that was to be set aside for such a , , I - 12 - complex like this. Now I don't know if any, in the area was ever zoned in that part for commercial but it was my understanding from what he told me then, years ago that there was to be then. Now also on the traffic, being that Horseshoe Valley Road connects to the 8th of Orillia, I believe it is, and #11 Highway, if you go through Prices Corners and then there is Division Road right through to the 8th of Orillia and then the other way, it goes right through to Minesing and that is why traffic on the Horseshoe Valley Road in the last 20 years has just got more and more and it is going to get more every year and that is why we are getting more transport trucks because it is a short cut for anybody that is going to Collingwood. The big thing is that you have got all these big trucks coming through there and the gravel trucks and everything else. When those trucks are moving, at least anybody in a small car really does not stand much of a chance because those fellows, like it or lump it, they are in business to make money and they are moving. I would just hate to see without some very good planning, there could be a lot of bad accidents in the next few years. Now we have never had anything on Horseshoe Valley Road but we did have a fatality last year at the 9th and that has been the first one but there has been a lot of other accidents that, just what could come in the future, that is all. Mayor Drury Any comments, questions? Graeme do you have anything you wish to add. Graeme Clark No I don't think so. There being no further questions or comments, when being called for the third time, the Mayor in closing the meeting, thanked those in attendance for their participation and advised that Council would consider all matters before reaching a decision. He then advised those present that if they wished to be notified of the passing of the proposed By-law, they should leave their name and address with the Clerk. Motion 1 Moved by Caldwell, seconded by Martin Be it resolved that this Special Public Meeting of Council (Part Lot 1, Concession 5, formerly Oro) now be adjourned @ 1:32 p.m. Carried. ~~ ' 1 ..' / A 4A-t ,( l£o; -61 ~ae:-' 6LERK, DARLENE SHOEBRID E