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02 16 1994 Sp Public Minutes ftB CORPORATION OJ' ftB TOWNSHIP OJ' ORO-KBDON'lB SPBCIAL PUBLIC KBftING W1IDNBSDa.Y J'uaUARY 16, 19ge .. 1:05 P.K. - COUNCIL CDlIBDS !'OaR KBftING 19ge COUNCIL council met this evening present: @ 7:05 p.m. with the following members Mayor Robert E. Drury Deputy Mayor Ian Beard Reeve David Caldwell Deputy Reeve Norman Dalziel Councillor Donald Bell Councillor Alastair Crawford Councillor Joanne Crokam Councillor Walter Dickie Councillor Murray Martin councillor Leonard Mortson staff Present: Kris Menzies, Planner, Mr. Gary cunnington, Administrator and Andria Darby. Also Present Was: Mr. Ted Gadawski, Robert Campbell, Carolyn Campbell, Evelyn Guthrie, Debra McMaster, William McMaster, I Sharon Howse, shirley Woodrow, Edward M. Hall, John Hare, Allan Baker, Cynthia Panagapka. Mayor Robert E. Drury assumed the chair and opened the meeting. Mayor Robert E. Drury opened the meeting by explaining to those present that this Public Meeting was to receive public comments with respect to a proposed Zoning By-law Amendment, pursuant to provisions of the Planning Act, 1983, Section 34 (12). The applicant has applied to rezone certain lands described as South Part Lot 18, Concession 4, formerly Oro. To date, the Council of the corporation of the Township of Oro- Medonte have not made decision on this application other than proceeding to a Public Meeting. Only after comments are received from the Public, Township Staff and requested Agencies within an appropriate time period, will Council make a decision on this application. Notice of the Public Meeting was mailed out on January 27,1994, to all property owners within 120 metres of the subject lands. Notice of the Public Meeting was also placed in both the Barrie Examiner and Orillia Packet and Times on January 27, 1994. Mayor Drury then asked the Deputy Clerk if there has been any correspondence received on this matter. The Deputy Clerk responded by indicating that correspondence had been recei ved from the Nottawasaga Valley Conservation Authority who had no objection to approval of the application and from Evelyn Guthrie, Duncan Campbell, Alan & Karen Campbell, Jim Partridge and William & Debra McMaster. Mr. Jim Partridge indicated he has no objection. All other correspondents could not support the application as presented. L - 2 - The Mayor then stated that those persons present would be afforded the opportunity of asking questions in respect to th~ proposed zoning By-Law Amendments. The Mayor then turned~he meet1ng over to Ms. Kris Menzies, Township Planner, to expla1n the purpose and effect of the proposed amendment. Kris Menzies: As the Mayor has stated, the property ~s located on Part Lot 18, Concess10n 4 1n the former Township of Oro. The property is designated in the Township Official Plan as agricultural and it is currently zoned agricultural. The applicant is requesting a site specific agricultural zoning on the property and as point of explanation Mr. Mayor and Council, what a site specific zoning does is potentially two things. It either restricts what the existing zoning by-law permits or it adds additional uses to what the existing zoning by-law permits. In this case, the applicant is requesting an additional use be permitted on his already agriculturally zoned lands. In effect, if Council sees favour with this rezoning, what it means that all the existing agricultural uses that he could have today, he will be able to have in . the future plus the addition of one site i specific use which is a kennel operation. Now the reason why the applicant is requesting this kennel operation is, the Municipal By-law passed under the Municipal Act for the Township of Oro state that you can only have two dogs on your property that are owned by yourself. If you want more than two dogs on your property you require a kennel licence. To be issued a kennel licence you have to be zoned for a kennel. In the case of a site specific zoning, Council has the opportuni ty to wr i te a by-law which is tailor made for a particular situation. In this particular case, it is the applicant's intent to have six of his own dogs on the property plus a once a year or once every two year litter. This by- law Council has the opportunity to write, these specific issues into the by-law. As an example, if Council see favour with the by-law after comment from the public, they ca~ pass a by-law which says a kennel, 1f they see favour with the exact proposal Mr. Gadawski is coming forth with, they could say, you could have up to six dogs on your property for personal use only. Any sort or myriad of site specific by-law that Council sees fit if they see favour with the proposal at all. Mr. Mayor and Council, Mr. Gadawski is here ~nd he may ha~e an opportunity to expla1n to the pub11c a little bit more of what his particular situation is. Bill McMaster I have an additional letter which I brought with me which is very similar to what has been read. Mayor Drury Please bring it forward and we will have it read into Minutes. - 3- Deputy Clerk correspondence received from william and Debra McMaster, February 16, 1994,. Oro Township, Re: Application for ReZon~ng. We have put considerable thought 1nto this matter. On speaking with the owner of the property, his only reason ~or submitting this application for rezon1ng is to allow him to have more than two dogs for personal use. We have no difficulty with this to present, base? on the manner in which they have superv1sed and cared for their dogs. We would support the concept of a temporary permit to allow him to have more than two dogs for personal use. We do not support the rezoning of agriculture land. We already have experience living with an adjacent kennel with its' associated noise levels. We do not wish to have a second kennel even closer to us. We have owned property in Oro Township for the past twelve years and will continue to do so. In summary, we cannot support the present rezoning application. We trust that our letter will be read, acted upon and minuted by the committee. Respectfully submitted. signed William and Debra McMaster. Mayor Drury Thank you Deputy Clerk, now we will open the floor again for questions, comments or concerns. Anything at all that you wish to bring forward, please bring it forward now so that Council may address the situation. Ted Gadawski If I could just have a few minutes of the peoples time and maybe I could just elaborate a little bit on it and hopefully clarify things. Mr. Mayor, Council, Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to bid a good evening to one and all and I would like to thank those of you who took the time and the effort and showed the interest to come out this evening to meet with me and meet with us. I know people are busy and Cynthia, maybe you could stand up, appreciate your time and your effort and thank you. I would like to begin by introducing ourselves and by setting the situation or giving a little bit of background on the situation. To that end, what I have is a property map here, which maybe I could put up on the board. To orient people, here is Highway 11, Highway 11 Corridor and here is the 4th Concession Line heading up away from the Lake on the Highway. My property is this one designated in the black. My home is -- - 4 - adjacent to the house and at the back I have erected seven kennel run areas for the dogs. Immediately to the North of me is vacant land owned by Duncan Campbell and immediately opposite him across the road is land owned by Evelyn Guthrie and she li ves on the property. Directly across from me is land owned by Duncan Campbell and that too is vacant land. I believe Duncan lives in Barrie. Adjacent to him is his son Allan and this is vacant except for periodic occupancy by Mr. Campbell who lives in Oakville. Directly beside me is Jim and Nancy Partridge. So you can get a rough idea of my immediate neighbour~. ,On the b~ck side is James Duncan and W1111am McCua1g. council Member You say you have seven runs? Ted Gadawski I currently have room for seven dogs to be housed outside. That is because the barn was twenty-eight feet wide and the kennels are four feet wide. I just put in what was there. It was at the back of the property. I have some pictures here as well if Council would like to see those. council Member My reaction is that you were taking premature activity on your property. Ted Gadawski That was my understanding. I can perhaps give you a little bit of insight into what happened. Mayor Drury Any questions for Mr. Gadawski? Ted Gadawski As far as Cynthia and I, I can maybe introduce ourselves. Cynthia is a computer systems analyst who works for Sun Life Canada and I am a professional wild life biologist who works for Ducks Unlimited Canada. One of our collective passions in life is the training and competing of Field Trial Labrador Retrievers. Cynthia has been training and competing dogs for twelve years and she actually owns three dogs. One is an old retired fellow and there is a young pup and another dog. I similarly own three dogs, one of which is old and retired and there is two young dogs that I have. We move~ ~nto Oro-Medonte Township for the spe~1f1c purpose of having these dogs and hav1ng our own land on which to be able to train these dogs and also having land on which the dogs could run and exercise. Perhaps if I could take Councils time to provide a little bit of insight into what these field trial dogs are all about. These dogs are tested on basis of their natural abilities to retrieve and they are also tested on their training abilities to work very closely with a handler. They are handled -- - 5 - very much the way people may have seen sheep dogs handled. For example, they can be remotely cast to a exact spot - distances up to half a mile, from a handler, so they work very prec1sely and very closely with people. ,The standards to which retrievers are tra1ned are among the highest in the dog world and the levels at which both Cynthia and I compete are at an International level. The type of work the dogs are asked to do demands that they be highly intelligent, that they are tractable and that they are very co-operative. The train~ng we do involves some very long somet1mes very arduous hours. We spend in the neighbourhood of four hour~, a day exercising the dogs and tra1n1ng the animals. This keeps them in top athletic form as well as it keeps them in good competitive condition. Those of you who are familiar with the property, may have seen a pond area in the back with a very irregular shoreline. That is part of the training these dogs are asked to work extensively in water and the purpose of that is again to i enable these dogs to be trained in a ¡ water situation. They are not made to I swim, this is an opportunity whereby they can be trained. I should add that most of the dogs that we do compete against are trained professionally. These dogs are extremely valuable. Some of these dogs are valued at as high as about half a million dollars a year. They are quite special in that regard. What cynthia and I do is we train as amateurs so that is the reason that we bought the property because we both work full time in professional positions and by having the property, we are able to go out our back door and be able to exercise our interest. Our dogs are from some of the finest blood lines in the labrador breed, some of the finest blood lines in the world. Occasionally we take a litter from one of the females who has distinguished itself in the competition form. We breed roughly once every two years and hopefully would as much as once a year. Al though they are working dogs, these animals are also very much a part of the family. They spend nights and weekends in the house and during daylight hours they are housed outside in specifically built runs at the back of the hobby barn that I mentioned. This gives them the fresh air that they need and sunlight that keeps them healthy. The runs themselves are four feet wide and twelve feet long and are on a concrete pad sloped away to keep them dry. Fully - 6 - insulated bedding areas complete with wind tunnels are attached to the kennels inside the barn and the entrance from a small doorway at the end of a run. The dogs I would say are very well housed. I have pictures of the property here, pictures of the dogs themselves and the outside runs. The reason I am here tonight is Cynthia and I moved in to Oro last May and we found out in September we were advised by the Township that in order to have more than two dogs that we would require a kennel licence. To this end, we worked with the Township over the past several months to acquire this licence and that is specifically why I am here. We have had these dogs and we have had this existing situation has occurred since we moved in in May and I apologize for my ignorance but I did not understand the intricacies of the zoning by-laws. Nevertheless let it be said that I was advised that a kennel licence was required and to that end we have recently spoken to all of our immediate neighbours except for two of which I couldn't contact, James Duncan on the back side and Duncan Campbell. I have spoken with, either Cynthia or myself have spoken with all of our neighbours and I think it is fair to say that they don't have a problem with what we are doing and again, folks may want to express an opinion in that regard. I would like to conclude by saying that these dogs are well behaved, they are quiet and they are very well taken care of. I would like to thank everyone once again for taking the time and trouble to come out and meet with us tonight. I would like to add that both Cynthia and I pride ourselves on being good neighbours and we trust we have been and we trust that we have acted in a fully responsible fashion. I have pictures here, perhaps Council I could go through. This is a picture of the front of the property and there is the hobby barn. The kennels are actually right here. You can't actually see the kennels from the road. They are fairly back away. There is the barn itself, a little bit of a closer shot and you can just make the kennels out right here. This is from the front of the property and here is what the runs themselves actually look like. Mayor Drury Could you just pass them around here. Ted Gadawski Then just through here, you can see the pond, and the pride of my life, and here is an example, here is Cynthia competing at this years National Retriever Championship with one of the girls and myself and there are the culprits and here are two the dogs I have bred which - 7 - are the subj ects of a recent painting. Anyway if people would care to look, thank you very much. And I could as well if these folks here who came could maYb~ see the pictures, I don't know if they have been on the property so. Bill McMaster Before we take questions from council, maybe we can go back to the public and ask them once again after hearing the presentation if they have any questions, comments or concerns they wish to raise at this point, either to our Planner or to the proponent As I talked to Ted, even tonight, my only concern would be that if Ted and cynthia somewhere down the road were to sell the property that someone might turn around and say well we have ready little business here of a kennel and afford them the opportunity, as far as neighbours, Ted and Cynthia are excellent, I mean if everyone in Oro is as good, there is certainly no problem that way. It is just the legality of making it legal what Ted wants and not opening a loop hole for someone else to abuse. Mayor Drury Mayor Drury Perhaps, I will have the Administrator address that situation and the Planner as well, once the zoning is in place, as far as the kennel goes, do we have to issue them a licence every year and what authority do we have not to issue it. Gary cunnington Generally what the kennel licence Mr. Mayor, there are conditions in the zoning by-law, dogs have to be registerable with the Canadian Kennel Association and whatever site specific set backs but once a kennel is there, if they continue to abide by the rules even if the ownership changes, the kennel licence can continue to exist. Mayor Drury Councillor Dalziel Martin and Deputy Reeve councillor Martin I raise German Short Hairs, Ted Gadawski Yes sir, how are you. councillor Martin Where we are at there,--(inaudible--) did you ever have any complaints from your neighbours at all? Ted Gada.ski No, the dogs are, because they are run and because they are exercised, usually when they are put in the run the in the ~orning, the first thing they do is to go I ~n and sleep and they usually wake up I Just about the time, it is time to come home at which time they are run again and they work and then they come in the house. So I don't know if people even knew I had dogs, so no, I personally not . - 8 - had any complaints an~ I don't know if the Township has rece1ved. But no, the simple answer is no. councillor Martin And you said two of the dogs are retired? Ted Gadawski Two dogs correct. that are retired that is Ted Gadawski And you are thinking of buying four more, adults or pups? I am not presently, what I have got ,is just about all I can handle, but my po1nt is I did build seven runs, my intent~on is to continue with what I have w1th again, I would like to co~tinue with what I have with a little b1t of room for flexibility. councillor Martin Mayor Drury Ted Gadawski Six dogs, is that correct? I have six dogs, now two are retired old guys, there is a young pup which we are just bringing up. The reason is, I am one of those people, it is like a horse, when they get old, I like to turn them out to pasture, it is their retirement I time and I am a little bit soft in that I regard. The other thing is, it takes about three years to bring these dogs up to a competitive level. So the reason for bringing a pup now is because a dog is getting up to the point where it is getting older and you work one in. But our intention is to be much the same as we currently are again with a little bit of flexibility because circumstances change. councillor Martin I like your dogs, I understand your dogs, but my one question that will make my mind up, are you going to bring dogs in there to look after? Ted Gadawski For boarding? No. I think this is a going point of clarification. I certainly don't propose to be the expert, but having worked with the Township and investigated the by-laws and as part of this, I enlisted the support of a Planner and what I understand from Oro, there is what I think what we would all term a commercial kennel, and there is a licence that deals with commercial kennels. There is also the proviso by which one can have, raise for exhibition and competition purposes, pure bred dogs, so what I would fall under is a pure bred kennel and I have a little bit of trouble with the word kennel, because I am not intending to open a kennel operation and I am not sure how we can clarify that. W~at I am simply trying to do is, comply w1th the laws of the Township and the Planning legislation of the Province. So what I am attempting to do is to legitimize having pure bred dogs on my property. I have 55 acres and the land -- Kris Menzies Mayor Drury Deputy Reeve Dalziel Ted Gadawski Deputy Reeve Dalziel Ted Gadawski Deputy Reeve Dalziel Ted Gadawski Deputy Reeve Dalziel - 9 - is zoned agricultural, but two thirds of it is wet, wet, wet, pretty well all spring, there is maybe, I would say ab~ut 10 acres of available land up on a h1gh knoll which I have a feeling is pretty rocky, so it is zoned agricultural ~ut I don't believe it has been farmed ~n at least 25 maybe people have a better 1dea, it may be 50 years. There is a rather large home on it, with a hobby bar~ and what it is, is a rural property 1n an agricultural area. All the lands around me are reasonably good agricul~ural ~an~, except for Mr. Campbells' and 1t aga1n 1S zoned hazard land or something of that nature. Again, that is just a point of clarification. Mr. Mayor and council, because M~. Gadawski is in a position to ask Counc11 for a site specific zoning, council has the opportunity to write in any form of zoning you so choose. You can specifically state six dogs for the personal use and training in retriever i trials, no boarding allowed. You can go i so far as to naming the dogs if you want I to. That is one of the joys a site specif ic zoning is that you have the ability to tailor make it for a very specific situation. Thank you Ms. Menzies. Deputy Reeve. Thank you Mr. Mayor, I think you are into a fabulous career, you have made a statement that I have to question. You said these are quiet dogs. That is correct. And you are only going to have a litter maybe every two years. Now these litters will have up to 12 pups? And all 12 are going to be quiet? No, the dogs that I breed, although I breed to garner those blood lines, it is I like race horses. Sometimes you breed I for yourself, but these pups are sold across North America. I don't keep, ah, the dogs I have with the exception of my one girl who I brought from Texas, they are all my own breeding. So, I don't keep them, no. They are sold. Wouldn't you keep one out of a litter of 12? Not necessarily, no, I mean periodically. I would to replace dogs as they get old' and as they die and that sort of thing. Alright, so lets assume that you sell the 11 within six months. -- Ted Gadawski - 10 - No, they are usually gone within,7 wee~s. NoW what I would like, aga1n" w1th peoples understanding is, I would 11ke an option for example, to be able to keep one dog out of the litter which I could sell as a starter dog at a,year or t~o years of age. But the idea 1S to do th1S is tremendously expensive and I am not a man of well means. In order to compete, more than one or two dogs is financially prohibited. It is something like $200.00 a week for entry fees for two dog~, so ~y intention is not to have dogs, 1S aga1n to legitimize what I have, and I appreciate the concerns of my ne1ghbours because I have talked to them all and quite frankly, I would feel the same if there was a commercial kennel operation for boarding, and I don't know the details of which or what kennel they are talking about but I would have the same reservations. I would like to impress upon council and people that I have been acting responsibly I believe. These dogs are for personal use. I do treat it as a side line business in selling dogs periodically, pups, in the future perhaps, a starter dog once in awhile, that is the sum extent of it. Basically I am dealing with field trial retrievers and my love of them is the training and competition of them. Mayor Drury Thank you, I will call once again for questions, councillor Crokam. councillor Crokam And this is strictly a hobby, you have a full time career? Ted Gadawski That is right, yes. councillor Crokam I just want to mention that I know Ted quite well and his dogs, and they are very well respected in competing the trial circuit and I wish you all the best and continued success. I kind of liken Ted's situation to protecting prize cattle or horses, it is the same sort of thing. These dogs are valuable assets and commodity. Ted Gadawski Yes, thank you, that is the analogy. It is much the same as prize beef or horses the difference with dogs of course is yo~ don't eat them. As far as animal products go, they are very much that and they are treated as livestock. I think I believe they are covered under the Live stock Act as far as Agriculture Canada is concerned. Mayor Drury Reeve Caldwell. Reeve Caldwell Thank you Mr. Mayor, I guess the concern that is being expressed by the letters and comments that it is not so much what you are going to do with the operation but should the property change hands, how the next owner might use or abuse the - 11 - privilege of a kennel and my question would be to Kris. We have ~wo type~ ~f kennel licences, can the s1te ,spec1f1c zoning specifically state that 1t has to be for the breeding and training of dogs rather than the boarding? Reeve Caldwell What I would suggest is that if council sees favour and wants to get it narrowed down to specifically Mr. Gadaw~ki's situation is that you state that S1X or perhaps seven dogs for personal use ,be permi tted on the property. No board1ng allowed. I would foresee if Mr. Gadawski decides to sell the property and someone moves in you will open up the door f~r someone with seven house pets to come 1n and utilize the property or seven dogs similarly to Mr. Gadawski's situation. Lets go one step further, lets suppose that they decide that they are going to breed Siberian Huskies or some other type of dog for breeding purposes for whatever reason and they happen to be a dog that i barks, that is traditional for that i particular breed, maybe not for the Labs, can we narrow it down to the breed? Kris Menzies Kris Menzies You certainly can. Ted Gadawski As far as I am concerned, yes. Reeve Caldwell Well maybe that is what we should seriously be considering, I have not heard any of the neighbours indicating that they have heard the dogs up to this point. They have heard them from the other kennel, the boarding kennel, but not from Mr. Gadawski's. That is what I am concerned about. william McMaster To be honest with you, I didn't even know Ted had six, you would never know he had six dogs down there. I was wondering if there is some way you could turn around and, the big concern is that somewhere down the road if it got abused, maybe make it, I don't know if it could be wrote in that it becomes null and void if the property is sold. I don't know if you know if that can be done or not, I don't know the legality. Kris Menzies Yes, zoning by-law runs with the land. fhe only opportunity Council has is Mr. ~adawski could be there for 50 years so you would have to I guess go on the good wishes of a future Council assuming he doesn't leave within the next 9 months of the term of this Council, that there is no such thing as an end to a zoning by- law, a sunset clause, a termination date, so on and so forth. The only thing Council can do is remove the zoning by passing another zoning by-law in the future to rezone it back to agriculture. So it would have to be a good will gesture on the part of Council. I am sure Mayor Drury councillor Martin Kris Menzies Mayor Drury Councillor Crawford - 12 - you can appreciate from an administrative stand point, it is hard to track ~ecau~e it - Mr. Gadawski could be there w1th h1S dogs for decades to come. But if that so happens, the public has an opportuni~y to come to Council and say Mr. Gadawsk1 has put a for sale s~gn on hi~ pr?perty, would council cons1der rezon1ng 1t ~ack to its' original use, and they certa1nly have the opportunity to consider that. Thank you. councillor Martin I just have one thing that I bet if he was here fifty years people of your calibre generally --(inaudible)--their winning and we would lose. I do like the idea as Reeve Caldwell suggested to the specific dog being pure bred only. Some people call them Labs which -------and as you said, another Council could revert that back at such time to its original use. I would be in favour of those two clauses to be included in that. Being that it is pure bred Labrador Retrievers and Council could deal with this if it should ever... In a zoning by-law, at least in my experience, you don't have the opportunity to bind a future Council to do something with your zoning by-law, so that clause I think would be contrary to the Planning Act. You may want to instruct me to put a note to file, but then you are crossing your fingers that some future council digs in the file to find out what was in it. I don't think that would be necessary if you had the breed of the dog specified, I think you would pretty well cover it. Any further comments, questions or concerns? For second time any comments, questions or concerns, anyone? Councillor Crawford. I just have some quick comments. I find it interesting that in agricultural zone, dogs are the only thing you can't breed. You can breed any other animal alive except for dogs. And yet dogs have been a part of agriculture for years and years. I find it interesting. Also, I understand that this particular rezoning is for pure bred dogs only and the çomplaints that have been voiced in letters have been in respect to a boarding kennel. You see, holidays and weekends, that means that there are strange dogs in there and under strange situation and they will bark. So I don't have any problem with pure bred dogs because they are usually there on the place, comfortable where they are, they are not upset or under stress, therefore, they don't make a noise and they are not a nuisance. Those are just the comments I want to make. Especially the one about - - 13 - breeding any animal alive except dogs in agricultural land. I find it very strange. There being no further questions or comments, when being called for the third time, the Mayor in closing the meeting, thanked those in attendance for their participation and advised that Council would consider all the matters before reaching a decision. He then advised those present that if they wished to be notified of the passing of the proposed By-Law, would they please leave their name and address with the Clerk. MOTION NO.1 Moved by Caldwell, seconded by Martin Be it resolved that this special Public Meeting of Council (South Part Lot 18, Concession 4, formerlyOro) now be adjourned @ 7:45 p.m. carried -~¡ (J~ ROB T E. DRURY, MAY ;¿~::::7At~~t!{~ liL'- LYNDA AIKEN, DEPUTY CLERK