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03 27 2000 Special Public Min . """ SPECIAL PUBLIC MEETING Monday, March 27, 2000, 7:00 p.m. Council Chambers & Robinson Room Proposed Amendments to Official Plan and Zoning By-law - P93/99 Concession 10, West Half of Lot 3 (formerly within the Township of Oro) Present: Mayor Beard Deputy Mayor Bell Councillor Lillian McConnell Councillor Ralph Hough Councillor Neil Craig Councillor Ron Sommers Councillor Ruth Fountain Staff Present: Andria Leigh, Township Planner, Jennifer Zieleniewski, CAO Also Present: Susanne Robinson Charles, Joe Charles, June Beard, John Hare, Edward M. Hall, Allan Baker, Linda Baker, Tammy Gouweloos, Laurel Hibbard, David Hibbard, Nel Newell, Rene McCutcheon, Ken McCutcheon, Carlton Waddling, George Syme, Ernie Dryden, Murray McGinnis, Jill Carr, Janet Dryden, Lynda Roe, Cathy Shelswell, Harold Shelswell, Joanne Reesor, Lorraine Burton, Leah Burton, Joanne Howatson, John Sinton, Nell Bergsma, Tammy O'Neil, Wayne Thorn, Tom Lawler, Lorie Beard, Elizabeth Vanlint, Velma Bradley, Ross Bradley, Lorraine Ego, Susan Grant, Bob Hutchison, Faye Goode, Walter Dickie, Garth Daniels, Terry VanKoughnet, Shelli Feinke, Diel-Mar Feinke, Dave Colangalo, H. C. McGel, Doreen Butler, Ross Butler, Gordon Keith, Larry Herr, Lorna Sommers, Don P. Hanney, Tim Taylor, J. R. Grand, Peter T. Kinsey, Rosemary Grant-Kinsey, Steven McCreary, Bob Shultz, Dennis R. Sutton, Bill Soles, Naomi Thornton, Earl Thornton, Barbara Cayley, Don Anderson, Jack Fountain, Peter Wigham, Leslie Saila, Waldemar Weber, Christa Weber, Frank Gauder, Donata Ellis, Ingrid VanderMarel, John VanderMarel, D. G. Brown, Mary Hick, Bernard Sirois, Bill Cartmill, Mike Reynolds, Jeff Rether, Gary Bell, Roy Campbell, Murray Martin Mayor Beard called the meeting to order and advised that all persons present would be afforded the opportunity of asking questions in respect to the proposed rezoning. , ,., \, '. It was indicated that correspondence had been received from Janet Keith, Nel & Norm Newell, Ken & Rene McCutcheon, June & Dan Williams, David Pryde and Joanne Howatson, Nancy & Mike Eleveld, Derek Vanlint, Faye & Andrew Goode, County of Simcoe Planning Department, D. J. Charles & S. H. Robinson, Jack Siegel, Connie Cochrane & Ryan Siegel, Ross & Doreen Butler, Allan & Linda Baker. Ms. Andria Leigh, Township Planner, provided an overview of the purpose and effect of the proposed amendments. Mr. Gary Bell, Skelton & Brumwell & Associates (retained by Gold Mountain Springs), provided a more in-depth outline of the proposed redesignation and rezoning. An alternative site plan was displayed for further consideration. The documentation relevant to the studies required from the applicant was briefly reviewed. Some estimates of the proposed amount of water to be extracted for bulk and bottling were provided by Mr. Bell. It was indicated by Mr. Bell that upgrades to the Municipal and County roads to facilitate the increase in traffic were required which will be undertaken by Gold Mountain Springs at no cost to the municipality per a Site Plan Agreement. All the controls that the municipality has were outlined. The job potential was also identified by Mr. Bell. Mayor Beard opened the floor to the audience for their input with respect to the proposed amendments. Councillor McConnell: "I was just wondering how far reaching (inaudible), how much of the entire study area have you monitored, and how long was your monitoring period?" Gary Bell: "The monitoring program was prepared on up-to-date, involving only the production wells at Gold Mountain Springs, so a condition of the requirements was that they have to be monitored once a month to ensure that the water level of the well is not dropping. If the water level of the well was dropping, they'd be having a negative impact on (inaudible) and that's not what we want to see. The long term monitoring program does not involve any offset levels; however the two wells that are on site now in production are on stand-by mode. They are more accustomed to the Ministry of Environment standards. I think five or six wells are monitored during the testing program, both shallow wells close by and deeper wells that are further away." Councillor McConnell: "(inaudible) how large is that, because you realize you're going right down into the deep-water aquifers (inaudible). How do you see the growth rate in Barrie, Orillia and our own municipality affecting the water bottling process protecting the supply of water for the region at this time?" Gary Bell: "I'm not familiar with the hydrogeologic of the Barrie wells. I have not looked at them myself, nor the Orillia wells. It is my understanding that the Barrie wells are somewhat deeper than the Oro-Medonte wells, I'm not particularly certain about that. However, we're really trying not to take water from anybody, including Orillia, Barrie, Oro-Medonte or anybody, and there will not be a noticeable impact on resources, so if Barrie is causing a negative impact, we'll be forced to look for other sources of water - same thing with Orillia, same thing with (inaudible)." Mayor Beard: "At this time, I would like to ask members of the public if they have some questions to come forward to the microphone and state your name please. Mr. HaiL" Ed Hall: "Thank you Mr. Mayor. I have a couple of questions for Gary. I made some rough notes. From the question of when the wells (inaudible) is approved and so on and gets into full time operation, I think you said that the bulk water taken would be 30 million litres per year, and the bottled water 2 " , \', '. taken would be 126 million litres per year, so that gives us a total of 156 million litres per year, and that would be your maximum output, right?" Gary Bell: "No, I had said 30 plus 96 million for 126 million." Ed Hall: "Okay, I had put 30 and 126 for a total of 156 million. So the grand total is 126 million. Okay, and you said that this will generate traffic of 220 cars per day." Jeff Rether: "Yes, and 282 total trips per day." Ed Hall: "That's cars and trucks?" Jeff Rether: "Yes that's correct" Ed Hall: "Okay then, by my arithmetic, 282 take away 220 is going to be 62 trucks per day. There's only two shifts of operation. So one could conclude then that in eight hours of operation, there would be 31 trucks, which is very close to 4 trucks an hour using Horseshoe Valley Road. One truck every 15 minutes." Jeff Rether: "That sounds correct, yes." Flipped tape over (some inaudible) Ed Hall: "...aquifer recharge and so on investigation has been done. Can you tell me what the rate of recharge is in an aquifer? Does your report say - do you know the number off the top of your head?" Jeff Rether: "I don't think anybody's established the actual rate of recharge to the aquifer. The way we come to that conclusion is to look at the water levels that are (inaudible)." Ed Hall: "Wait just a minute. You said what I expected you to say. Nobody knows what the rate of recharge is in an aquifer. So if you don't know, how can you possibly know if this well will have no significant effect on the operation? On the aquifer? How can you say that when you don't know what the rate of recharge is." Jeff Rether: "Well you're looking at two different things. One thing is the overall amount of precipitation that eventually filters down the aquifer system." Ed Hall: "What percentage is that?" Mayor Beard: "Let the gentleman finish. One at a time please." Jeff Rether: "There's two things we're looking at here. One is the amount of precipitation that is eventually filtered down into the aquifer system. The other thing you're looking is what we've done, and this is the testing area, and that involves the pumping of the wells, (inaudible) conducted over a seventy- two hour period, and what those test areas are designed to do is to establish how much water has been drawn from the aquifer over that seventy-two hour period. This gives us a good idea of the wells' impact, and what we do then is turn off the wells and see how fast the aquifer recovers from that pumping program. The aquifer recovered very quickly from that test, so we can assume from that that the recharge of the aquifer is sufficient to meet the needs. The other thing we looked at was the water levels in the aquifer over the long term with the pumping program we have so far. You need to look at the long term water levels to make sure that you're not taking more water than the aquifers are being recharged with. If you're looking at the water levels over 3 , ' Ii ,. ", " 8 . the long term and you saw them going down each year and never recovering in the Spring, obviously you've been taking more than the recharge of the aquifer and you can't have that. However, what we're seeing in the monitoring program to date is that the water is not dropping each year, it is recovering each year. Water levels drop from the Spring to the Fall naturally each year. We're just seeing normal water levels in the aquifer, so we're not taking more than the recharge of the aquifer in the area." Ed Hall: "You're saying that you're not taking more because of the fact that the well recovers." Jeff Rether: "Yes." Ed Hall: "If you had data on the original (inaudible) test and the monitoring of the Buffalo Ranch wells for the test, how long does it take to recover?" Jeff Rether: "The wells recovered over 90% recovery in ten years." Ed Hall: "So you're saying that when you pump it at this rate here, the well will be capable of recovering easily (inaudible)." Jeff Rether: "It should, yes." Ed Hall: "Well we still have that concern. It was a very large assumption here being made on your part that the rate of recharge, or the rate of recovery of the well is interesting to see, but it still does not answer the fundamental basic question - what rate is this aquifer charged at? Now to say that because there is a certain amount precipitation of eight inches in a year, and the area that is affected is two hundred square miles, and that volume of water is equivalent to Lake Ontario and therefore there is no problem. I've heard that routine a couple of times at OMB hearings, but that is strictly not correct, it is not a safe assumption. There is a lot of things affected, the topography, the permeability of the soil and so on, but the basic hard practical knowledge, only 10% at most of the water that falls (inaudible) makes it down to the aquifer, so to tell people that to pump all this water and don't worry about it, it just runs off and goes back into the aquifer - we have to find out, and there is a study ongoing by the Township to get that answer. It seems to me that you people are a little premature." Mayor Beard: "Next person who wishes to ask a question, please." GreCl Howes: "A couple of questions. My name is Greg Howes. How long does the water take to get to those deep-water aquifers?" Jeff Rether: "Again, I can't answer that specifically. It could range from tons of years to hundreds of years based on the situation." GreCl Howes: "So, in other words, the recharge that is going on now is probably from rain that happened thirty or forty years ago?" Jeff Rether: "That could be correct" GreCl Howes: "Okay. Are you testing the shallow aquifers?" Jeff Rether: "(inaudible) That's part of the proposal in which we (inaudible) into this process. We have recommended that two or three shallow wells be installed on the site to augment the monitoring program, which only includes now the deep wells." GreCl Howes: "So you don't know that the pumping of the deep aquifer, you don't know whether or not it is actually having an impact on the shallow aquifers. " 4 , !' , '. 8 . " , Jeff Rether: 'The monitoring program does not include that; however, the testing programs were done originally on the shallow wells." GreCl Howes: "How shallow?" Jeff Rether: "There were twelve wells, very shallow (inaudible) that were monitored and were not impacted at all. There was another dug well about the same distance that (inaudible) that was also monitored and it did not move as well. On the Buffalo Springs property, there was an intermediate well, not a deep well but it was about one hundred and fifty feet deep and it was also monitored with no impact. However the deep wells on the Buffalo Springs property, there was some water level lowering." GreCl Howes: "Do you know how many litres are approved for removal from the aquifer per day?" Jeff Rether: "In Gold Mountain Springs?" GreCl Howes: "No. In Oro-Medonte." Jeff Rether: "I couldn't give you a number, no." GreCl Howes: "Would you be surprised if I told you it was over fifty million litres per day?" Jeff Rether: "I wouldn't be surprised at all. There's a lot of (inaudible) capacity wells in the Township." GreCl Howes: "So in your proposal, will you be looking at the impact on shallow wells?" Jeff Rether: "Yes. That will be included in the monitoring program." Grea Howes: "And what will happen if the shallow wells go dry?" Jeff Rether: "That will be, as far as the permit goes, the Ministry of Environment does not allow any negative impact If any information shows that Gold Mountain Springs is negatively affecting deep aquifer or shallow well systems, etc., their permit will be curtailed or (inaudible)." GreCl Howes: "So what will happen is that all those who have permits to take water, and all of a sudden the shallow wells go dry, you'll fight over whether or not there is actually going to be any compensation for those who lose their wells?" Jeff Rether: "Well, under the current program any producer with a permit, if he dries somebody out, he has to replace - (inaudible) for example, if your well went dry as a result of that permit, he would have to replace that at no cost to you." GreCl Howes: "But how are we to determine who is the person who dried up my well if there are fifty million litres a day going out from various..." Jeff Rether: "It is going to be the producer closest to you that would be taking the most water. That would probably be the first assumption anyone would make." GreCl Howes: "Okay." Mayor Beard: "Next question, please." 5 , ! II '. , , ". . . Garth Daniels: "Mine isn't a question. There are some general observations and comments that I'd like to make, is that alright?" Mayor Beard: "Yes, but state your name." Garth Daniels: "My name is Garth Daniels and I live on the 4th Line of Oro- Medonte. Thank you for having me here tonight and letting us voice our concerns and our opinions. It goes without saying that I am against any commercial extraction of water on the Oro Moraine. That however has nothing to do with this meeting and the proposed amendment to the Official Plan and Zoning By-law. A commercial extraction of water from the Oro Moraine is done under license from the Ministry of the Environment. We can't do anything about the Ministry and the Government not being concerned that our water supply might disappear without provisions for supplying we, the residents, with potable water; however, Council can deny this amendment and not make it any easier for Gold Mountain Springs to deplete our water supply. The County of Simcoe wrote a letter voicing their concerns on the assault of the Oak Ridges Moraine in regards to water supply. The main concern was the Oak Ridges Moraine is the source of the headwaters of the Nottawasaga River, which obviously has significant impact on Simcoe County. Likewise, the Oro Moraine is the source of the headwaters of the Coldwater River and numerous creeks and streams in our Township and the northern part of Simcoe County. The same concerns that the County has towards the Oak Ridges Moraine should obviously apply to the Oro Moraine. Any resident can drill for water, hit an ample supply and apply for a license to draw "X" number of litres. On a small scale of 50,000 litres per day, I believe a license is not required. Rezone the Gold Mountain Spring property and we will be more or less obligated to rezone any property that has a license to draw water, as this sets a precedent. This has a ramification to open the flood gates for similar rezoning applications for which you will have no recourse but to entertain. The problem with precedents is that they come back to haunt to you. This is another reason why so many citizens are concerned about this rezoning. I believe that Gold Mountain Springs' license to extract water comes under review in approximately three years. By allowing this rezoning and the large capital outlay on buildings and equipment and improvements, they will likely qualify under the usual grandfather clause. This will allow them to continue to operate, even though no new extraction licenses are being issued or renewed due to impending legislation which may ban domestic use or exportation. You mayor not be aware that under the Environmental Bill of Rights, groups of two or more people can ask the Provincial Minister to review a Provincial Policy. This gives them a legal tool and forces the Government to act. Any request, when presented, requires the Province's Environmental Commissioner to reply within ten days. The Commissioner must then forward the request to the relevant Minister who has twenty days to act. Hopefully our two County Council representatives hold the Oro Moraine in even higher regard than the Oak Ridges Moraine as they know first-hand of its significance. In my opinion, it would be hypocritical for one to be concerned about the assault on the Oak Ridges Moraine and then turn around and vote in favour of this arnendment The decision is up to you, our elected representatives. You represent our interests. It is also my opinion that Council is in no way obligated to make it any easier for Gold Mountain Springs to deplete our water supply. Please do not support this proposal if you care one iota about Oro-Medonte's future." 6 , I: :' . , ". . . Mayor Beard: "Next question please." David Brown: "My name is David Brown. I'm really concerned about water, but another concern I have is traffic. Is this going to be a designated route? Are there going to be 18 wheelers, tandems, or what kind of vehicles are you using to haul this water? Four trucks an hour is quite a wear and tear. Myself personally I don't think the Horseshoe Valley Road, especially where the recreation Horseshoe Resort itself is, is safe to have these trucks coming back and forth, because we have a problem right now with the intersection at the Horseshoe Valley Resort. If we get these 18 wheelers bombing along, I know because I travel through this area every day of the week, you can plan to restrict the speed but they will do at least 110 k's per hour. This road is not built for that kind of speed or that size truck. It is now a recreational area with the cottagers and everything else using this road. If we get these big trucks on here, and you said four an hour, for twenty-four hours a day, 365 days a year, I still think we're going to have some problems with it. Do you have a designated route or will they be going east and west, north and south, or are they going to use one route (inaudible)." Gary Bell: "Yes there will be 18 wheelers, tanker trucks (inaudible). The trucks should be and are in most cases 18 wheelers, and we have provided all the numbers to the County and in consideration of the background in traffic in the engineering study, I believe that the County will find that that is not an unacceptable volume of traffic (inaudible). Hwy 22 is already busy being the haul route obviously from plant to County Road, according to Ms. Givens, to the 9th Line. There are prescriptions for the intersection improvements that are required there and, for instance, the 9th Line should be reconstructed with asphalt surfacing in accordance with the Township of Oro-Medonte's standards. The hill located just east of the 9th Line on 22 will be regraded to improve sight distances. This goes on to identify what work would be done in conjunction with the County to make that intersection safe and improved for all. As to the direction of market, County Road 22, I mean there is the Horseshoe Valley Road, we spoke about that, that trucks would avoid that if they can (loaded trucks), but it is a County road and there is not a predetermination of direction of traffic on highways and County roads. Sometimes you get involved with this on Municipal roads." Bob Shultz: 'Well, presently what we're doing is the tankers are coming in because of the hill. The tankers are coming in when they're empty - they come from Horseshoe Valley, they come up the 400 Extension, and when they're full, they head to Orillia and go the other way. As far as would we designate? I think it's like anything else. At the time when things were being put down, there were concerns from yourself or from the public, or also anything coming in I guess from the County, where we could alleviate or cut them and try to direct them that they would come in one way. We'd be probably doing the opposite with raw materials then, because during the winter with the road conditions and that, you would certainly not want to see loaded trucks coming down there and somebody coming out of Horseshoe Valley." David Brown: "It's not only going to be the winter. I think any time of year it's just a disaster area. And when are you going to correct your route - when somebody gets killed like normally takes placeT Mayor Beard: "Would you ask questions through the Chair please?" 7 . David Brown: "No problem. Are we going to wait 'til we do have a serious problem, and then correct the route? I seriously think myself that the Horseshoe Valley should be off limits because like we've said, there's a serious problem right now with just cars alone. The trucks, I deal with them every day so I know what's taking place. I'd like to know if there's any laws or by-laws with what you can do or if they can just come in here and walk through and say we're going to use this road, and I don't know the laws well enough (inaudible)." Mayor Beard: "Mr. Shultz, do you wish to reply to that statement? It's up to you." Bob Shultz: "I can certainly reply. As far as I know there is no law as far as who goes on what roads other than half loads. As far as what I've seen on the road presently on Horseshoe Valley Road, I see lots of trucks there. We will certainly add to it, yes, but four an hour with the proposal is certainly what we are estimating. But, if it proves to be advantageous for everybody concerned to not see things move forward, by all means. I mean, we can control that. That is something that we can control by the fact that the trucks come in to our site." David Brown: "So you're saying that four an hour. Can it be greater than that?" Bob Shultz: "That's what the estimates are based on the equipment that we would have. Could it be greater? It could be greater, it could be less. I mean when we started this project out and started our business up, we projected certainly higher numbers as far as the bulk water shipping went, and it didn't turn out that way." David Brown: "Who looks after the maintenance of the road with these 18 wheelers pounding the pavement. Do they get enough taxes from them to keep it upgraded." Mayor Beard: "I'm not sure that we ever get enough taxes. That road is supposed to be rebuilt in part of this year and part of next year. I realize that and I'd bridge corners. We can't - once the vehicle is licensed - we built the road, you can't control who goes on it and who doesn't go on it, with the exception of half loads for instance in the Spring or if somebody has a special condition (inaudible). That vehicle is licensed and it's licensed to run any road in this Township, Municipality or the Province. Basically we have no control over that unless we have temporary detours - as a matter of fact it's my understanding (inaudible) the Province won't let us control that (inaudible)." David Brown: "I guess the only control then is to not have plant right beside us." Mayor Beard: "That would be one method of control I suppose." Bob Shultz: "If I could just respond to one thing. You asked about what's been spent on the roads. Gold Mountain Springs to date has spent in excess of about $148,000 on the concession road." . David Brown: "That's $148,000. How many truckloads? I mean your talking that kind of money does nothing." Bob Shultz: "No, no, but you asked about what we've spent on the roads. We've spent that ...." David Brown: "(inaudible)" 8 , ¡' ii '. . . . " Mayor Beard: (gavel to come to order). 'Through the Chair. We don't want to get (inaudible)." David Brown: "I'm sorry. I just want to remind you that a hundred and some thousand dollars to build the roads - give me a break! I just think that the big truck traffic should not be allowed on this road. Like I said, you only get these trucks, and I know from experience, they're not going to go the 80 k an hour, and that road was not built for cars to go over the speed limit, never mind these 18 wheelers loaded. When they're going down Horseshoe Valley loaded, you can hardly stop your car going down sometimes at the bottom of the junction. Like I said, I am really concerned about the water, but I'm also very concerned about that traffic, and when you start getting these big vehicles on that road, you've got a problem." John Hare: "I hope nobody takes - some of the words in this seem strong to certain parties in this room, and I hope you don't take offence. This is from the Jarratt Coulson & District Community Group, a presentation to Oro- Medonte Council re: Gold Mountain Springs: 'Mr. Mayor, members of Council, Ladies and Gentlemen; my name is John Hare and I reside on the 8th Line North, near Horseshoe Valley Road. My purpose in speaking to you tonight is to register the objections of the Jarratt Coulson Community Group to the continuation and expansion of the Gold Mountain Springs operation. Our group was represented at a Council meeting on Wednesday, May 21st, 1997 when a commitment was made by Mr. Robert Shultz, President of Gold Mountain Springs, to this Township and the Jarratt Coulson Group. In his commitment, Mr. Shultz agreed to provide full and open disclosure of the amounts and frequency of water taking, the static levels, and any related data required to address our concerns about the impact of their operations on the aquifer - so vital to everyone in this room tonight. Mr. Mayor, as you and many members of the Council know, this simply did not happen. At our first visit to the well we were informed by Mr. Doug Goulette (who represented Gold Mountain and was present when Mr. Shultz made his commitment on May 21st, that only the static water level of the well would be provided to our representative. Mr. Ed Hall. In fact, no water taking records of either quantities or timings were going to be provided. In addition, we would only be allowed to witness the static level measurement taken once per month. Static level information on its own is essentially useless in determining stress on the aquifer. Static level must be examined in conjunction with water quantities pumped, frequency, duration and start and stop times. Since that initial visit, our group has been permitted to witness static level measurement on only three other occasions, for a total of four visits within thirty-four months of operation of this well. Compare these facts to the promise made of full and open access to all of Gold Mountain Springs water taking activities. It is with regret, disappointment, and great concern for the welfare of our Oro Moraine aquifer that we must inform Council that in our experience, Gold Mountain Springs is not to be trusted. The Jarratt Coulson Group is opposed to the rezoning of the Gold Mountain Springs property located on the West half of Lot 3, Concession 10 from Agricultural to Industrial for the following reasons: 1. We are opposed to the export of ground water from the Township. 9 2. Approval will result in a 100 acre (well, we realize now that it will be 18 acres or whatever it is now) island of industrial property in the midst of an agricultural area, which contravenes our Official Plan. 3. The proposed building, and now they have reduced the size from 150,000 square feet to 100,000 square feet or approximately, (it won't be 400 x 400 feet anymore), but a 150,000 square foot building is about 3/4 the size of the new Wal-Mart building at Highway 11 and 12 going into Orillia. So it gives you an idea of the size of the building that they were proposing to put up. Beyond its enormous size, there have been no details provided as to how it will be used or the services it will require. Existing roads to the site are inadequate and it's proximity to wetlands may preclude the provision of an adequate sewage disposal facility. 4. If Council is inclined to approve this proposal, this building should be located in our existing Industrial Parks, either at Guthrie or at the 13th Line and 15/16 Side Road site. Both of these locations can readily supply any industrial services required, as well as provide immediate access to Hwy. 11, which is much more efficient for heavy truck traffic. Any increase in the dangerous truck traffic already existing on Horseshoe Valley Road would be insane. Location of this industrial building in either of these parks would also be compatible with our Official Plan, rather than being in direct violation, as proposed by this amendment. 5. Gold Mountain's water taking permit expires in 2005. If it is not renewed by the Province, which is more probable as governments recognize the importance of protecting this resource, such a building could be more readily reused if it were located in an industrial park. In the proposed location it would endure as a white elephant and an eyesore to this community. 6. If Council approves this proposal, it will quickly result in a significant increase in the rate of water taking by Gold Mountain. In addition to bulk water shipments by tanker trucks, bottled water would be shipped by regular transport trucks. 7. It is foolhardy to put our precious and limited ground water in further jeopardy before we know the results of the Township's 'Oro Moraine Watershed Study'. This benchmark study has the support of both the County and Provincial governments, and will undoubtedly influence the Province's renewal of Gold Mountain's permit. Gold Mountain Springs is a hot potato which this Council inherited from the previous Council. We don't blame you for its original approval, but we must point out that any further approval, such as the by-law amendment presently under consideration, will contradict the principles which you advocated when you were elected. Please keep this in mind and handle this hot potato carefully. We thank you for your attention and we trust you will make the right decision - to preserve our ground water and the quality of life we all enjoy in Oro-Medonte'." Mayor Beard: "Next question?" Carlton WaddlinCl: "My name is Carlton Waddling representing the Horseshoe Valley Property Owners Association. It is interesting to note that we're through a lot of things at Horseshoe Valley and we've talked about the traffic there being atrocious before the drawing of water opened, and it's worse now and it's going to get worse if you do this. We're supporting most of the letters that are here. We all know how important water is to the planet. Our Association is greatly concerned that this permit allows the deep water extraction as it is now, but that is not the issue tonight. 10 . ' The issue today is regarding the building of a water bottling plant, and we do have some concerns there. That is water being extracted from the aquifer, an area about which we have heard so little information except for the comments heard here tonight. No-one knows how quickly it will regenerate. Also, if this plant is built, you have institutionalized the extraction of water from the aquifer, and it makes (inaudible) almost impossible to turn down. . Also, it is contrary to the Township of Oro-Medonte's Official Plan. The Official Plan was developed and adopted after many long hours of work and consideration by private citizens and public officials of the Township. In it's Vision Statement, the Official Plan recognizes the likelihood of continued pressures for development for Oro-Medonte and the adjoining area. But the Official Plan developed policies based on four pillars. Pillar one is to protect the natural environment. Pillar two is to promote the proper conservation and use of natural resources. Pillar three is to protect the Township's rural character, and I dare say that changing from Agriculture to Industrial doesn't do that. Pillar four is to manage change to ensure that it occurs in an orderly manner, and we accept that. We're not against development. Section F2 of the Official Plan deals with the ground water recharge areas, and specifically water bottling plants. It is important to note that the objectives of this section are to protect the headwaters, rivers and streams, protect the quality of water available for drinking purposes, ensure the integrity of the municipality's water shed, maintain or enhance and ensure that the quantity of water and the ground water is protected. Definitely the main issues are how much water is in the aquifer, what is the long-term effect on the aquifer of the extraction of the water now by Gold Mountain, plus the other uses that are being used of water by Ducks Unlimited and other places, and finally who owns the water? No-one has mentioned anything about the ownership of water. To answer the first question, how much water is there? It is pretty evident from what I've heard today that I don't think anyone in this room can give a definitive answer as to the long-term availability of our water supply. We just don't know. Councillors, that is why your decision on this subject is so important, both now and in the future. Who owns the water? It's under your land so you probably think it's yours. And if it's aquifer, if the aquifer ran on a completely level plain, which it doesn't I'm sure, there would be no inequity. Water drawn from any different property can affect the water level of a neighbour miles away, just simply because water does run downhill. So the deeper the licensing of the water pool, the more likely it is that you will be pulling water from someone else before you use your own water. So, who really owns the water? I think everyone does. . As mentioned earlier, Section F2, paragraph 3, sub-paragraph 2 of the Official Plan deals directly with water bottling plants. The opening sentence of this section says The development of a water bottling plant that processes water extracted from a well located within the Township of Oro-Medonte is not permitted in any land use designated by this Plan.' This same section talks about the lack of detailed information on the ground water regime of the Township. When the Official Plan uses this reason as its reason for requiring an amendment to the Official Plan and deal with the many zoning by-laws, and this is where your (inaudible) and we hope that you will exercise it in the right way. So, the applicant must meet some stringent requirements before such changes are allowed. Regarding testing, two years ago, the Horseshoe 11 ,!i, . " . Valley Coalition was supposed to be part of the water level testing plan, and we've heard about that already from John. Our Association is not aware of any of the results from that process monitoring. With this history, how can we trust and be sure that this won't happen in the future. We believe that the water level must not be restricted only to the water under the applicant's property. It must also include an area large enough to ensure that levels surrounding the extraction point are not being adversely affected. Arguments may be made that the bottling plant will result in less water. While I guess we haven't heard that, it's going to be a little more, quite a little more, and provides jobs and taxes for the Township. First of all, while my first argument was about less water, of course, the applicant would not reduce the water extracted, shipped and sold, contrary to what he wants to do, obviously. Second, and I think most important, in five years or three when the license comes up for renewal, if it is found that the extraction is detrimental, and you're now doing tests to see if it's detrimental, if it is found that the extraction is detrimental to the aquifer, would a future Council have the intestinal fortitude to close down a one hundred square foot plant and suffer the resulting lay-offs? I don't think so. Well, I believe it's a far wiser decision to turn down this application for a bottling plant now; then in the next three to five years of the applicant's current license. Monitor and complete the study of the impact on the aquifer. At the end of that period, if the results show a major reduction in the level, it's much easier to turn the tap off simply by not extending the license, that is by turning down the large plant proposal tonight. If you are convinced and you do decide that this is the right way to go, that there is sufficient water and if the decision was that the application was to be approved, where would they locate the plant? How many people will it employ? Who owns the water? But where to locate the plant is also covered in the Official Plan. It deals with location of any industrial or commercial operation by designating land in the vicinity of the Lake Simcoe Regional Airport for industrial and commercial use. That is in your Vision Statement. How many people will be employed, I think we've heard. I suspect that this plant will be a fairly highly automated plant, and maybe we have some question as to the number of employees that will be there. Who owns the water? I suggested earlier that because water flows to find its own level, it should not be determined by the existence of water under an individual's ground. We are all borrowing the water we are using; therefore, water under the licensee's land does not belong to him, but to us. . So therefore, who should benefit from the extraction and bottling? Without suggesting that the whole world should benefit from this extraction, I would offer that the people of Oro-Medonte at least should be the benefactors. Some questions for you to ponder. Is there a sufficient water supply for the Township? Who owns the water? Is water indeed a critical depleting resource requiring careful and continuing monitoring? Does the applicant have the right to take water from the surrounding supplies without any (inaudible). We believe that you would be far better to err on the side of preservation in this case. Buy yourself time to properly consider the many ramifications of your decision. Turn down the application. But if you don't turn it down, at least ensure that adequate payment is extracted. Did you know that a 1.5 litre bottle of water in Sobey's sells for a dollar thirty-nine? A two litre bottle of Pepsi sells for a dollar forty-nine. Pepsi's cheaper! 12 i , Ii'. Finally, I would suggest the following: if you're going to approve this, make sure you get paid for it. Maybe it will help us take care of the roads around here. Maybe it will help to provide some recreational facilities to our Township. It may be able to support those recreational facilities. But first of all, think carefully about what you're going to do. Thank you very much." . Terry VanKounet: "Fifteen years ago, my wife and I put our well in, and (inaudible), and two and a half years ago after having (inaudible), and in the past four to five months, there are lime deposits. (inaudible)." Jeff Rether: I can't comment on that directly because I don't know where your well was in the first place. Iron in well water and possibly the lime (inaudible)." Terry VanKounet: "(inaudible). Your well could have affect on our water. If we didn't have it for twelve years, we shouldn't have it now." Jeff Rether: "May I ask how deep is your well?" Terry VanKounet: "One hundred and twenty feet." Jeff Rether: "It's not as deep as the Gold Mountain well. Does it run down the hill at aliT Terry VanKounet: "It runs backside (inaudible)." Jeff Rether: "How much (inaudible). To be honest with you, we did monitor wells that are as deep as yours and they were not affected by the pumping house." Terry VanKounet: "I agree. (inaudible) but our clear water's changed. Like I said, two years ago we had to put filters, we had twelve years of perfectly good water, and then we started to get iron in the water, and now for the past four or five months, we're getting lime deposits (inaudible)." Jeff Rether: "It is possible for a large (inaudible) to bring in water of a different quality. (inaudible). I can't comment on this issue, as I do not know the well." Terry VanKounet: "I was just wondering if you're only doing thirty million gallons now, and you're going to put it up to one hundred and thirty, what effect is it going to have on my well thenT Jeff Rether: "I would suggest that it could become part of the monitoring program. Specifically, we're monitoring programs that have had changes of quality, and it is the responsibility of the taker to payor at least compensate (inaudible). That's not unusual." Terry VanKounet: "So how do I become (inaudible)." . Mayor Beard: "Next question or comment." John Morovitz: "I'm John Morovitz and I live on the th Line. I would just like to add another voice of objection and some facts that came to my attention recently. In the last two years, between December 1997 and currently, some sixteen permits have been granted by the Ministry of the Environment for drawing water in this Township. Adding an additional fifty-two million litres per day of water being drawn from our aquifer, I don't know how much of that is actually being drawn, but that sounds like an awful lot of water to me. It's more than I use to make a cup of coffee in the morning! I don't know quite how to relate to that to get some sense of what fifty-two million litres is. And that's just in addition to the water that is already counted and gone. 13 . So I spoke to (inaudible) for the lack of anything better and I said what does an average household in town use in terms of its daily consumption of water. The answer was as a rule of thumb about eight hundred litres per household with four people. So a bit of rapid math tells me that in the last two years, the Ministry of the Environment, in London by the way - London, Ontario - was granted the equivalent of sixty-five thousand households' residential use of water to be drawn out of (inaudible). That's like between two to three times the size of the City of Barrie in terms of residential use. Sixty-five thousand households with four people on average. That seems like a lot of water, additional water, to be taken out of this aquifer. So I'd just like that to be considered in the context that Lake Huron is at record lows, there are droughts in the American South West, we're facing increasing uncertainty about climate change - there's a lot of stuff that we don't know, but I wanted you to bear in mind this issue here." Mayor Beard: "Mr. Hanney." Mr. Don Hanney: "Thank you. Mr. Mayor, Councillors, members of staff and visiting shareholders. My name is Don Hanney, owner and operator of Burl's Creek Family Event Park, member of the Economic Development Steering Committee, and President of the Oro-Medonte Chamber of Commerce. For the past few years, we have strived very hard to bring some commerce to Oro-Medonte. The Economic Development Steering Committee and the Economic Development Committee of Oro-Medonte has spent countless dollars and countless hours attending seminars, trade shows, presenting us as an open area for which to do business. I'm before you tonight in support of the water bottling facility proposed by Gold Mountain Springs. The following statements are mine and mine alone, not those of any committees. I'm a concerned shareholder and a business operator in Oro-Medonte. Yeah, I too take water and I do have two wells, both on the same farm. One is at three hundred feet and it has iron in it. I have another at one hundred and thirty-five feet and it is clear as crystal. Please put aside any issue here tonight of taking water. Our senior governments control how much water is going to go anywhere. The water that we have here today on this earth is the same water that was here when Adam and Eve were here. It's not as pure as it was, and it's not distributed the same way, but it's still the same water. 8 Would you concentrate on the benefits to our area for the young workers and the economic input rather than the water. Understand the impact that their earned dollars will reap. If it was the intention to shut down growth in Oro- Medonte, we should have only allowed people over the propagating age into our Township twenty-five years ago. No man is an island and neither are we in Oro-Medonte. This Council must express control, compromise towards change today as the Township Councillors that have gone before. The future widening of Hwy. 11 from four to six lanes and the proposed service roads is sure to destroy still further the rural lifestyle enjoyed by so many residents whose properties abut this important artery. A study of note by GE, prior to 1990, I believe outlined that every dollar paid out to employees wages were circulated seven times within the area before they left the area. The new industrial taxes paid by this new water bottling facility in Oro- Medonte will help off-set some of the negative tax returns to the Township of new home construction. We are told by this very Council a home is not a money maker in annual tax revenue. 14 , ! il" Had the Council today not had the foresight to approve Bill Lohuaru and Joseph Huter's ski lodge dreams, we would not have Horseshoe or Mount St. Louis Ski Resorts, which provide many jobs for our people and contribute to our Township coffers. . I offer this question to the homeowners of the Horseshoe area: if there was an application to build a mecca for tourists by building a large ski lodge and time share, a golf course, would you object, considering the volume of water required for golf course watering and snow making? Would you want that in your back yard? This is not to mention the added vehicle movement required to sustain the operation. I suggest to you all the retort would be "Not in my back yard'. Yes you all, save for a few die-hard residents, elected to relocate in this high traffic inadequate road location. Everything we do in Oro-Medonte changes our landscape - a new house, a new chicken barn, agro-tourism, B & B's, parks like mine - they all add to the destruction of the original lifestyle enjoyed by our forefathers that settled this area. You all know I'm not bashful at berating various members of Council who in my mind have fallen short in their duties to the shareholders of Oro-Medonte. In their defense however, let me say that they have a difficult, thankless position in life trying to please all of us all the time. Their mandate has been to maintain the tax level, improve our roads and services while limiting changes to our rural lifestyle that we all enjoy. The bottling plant location will have a very limited effect on a minimum of Oro- Medonte shareholders. Through this Council, their forward thinking, Wolf Steele, Napoleon Stove Works have increased their floor space, increased their staff, and added handsomely to our Township coffers. Yes, even it is located in some body's back yard. I, like most of you, love it here in Oro-Medonte - relaxed rural lifestyle, quiet country living, great friends and neighbours, and a great Council that I can pick on once in a while. Your Economic Development Steering Committee has spent many dollars and countless hours trying to raise the awareness of Oro-Medonte throughout Ontario and the Northern United States as the best place to live, work and play. When the opportunity to have an industry located in our Township that is 99.99/100 percent recyclable, utilizing a renewable source to provide employment, this moment is golden. Support this Official Plan Amendment and let the water bottling plant begin. Please consider all the known benefits to the OPA. Our Official Plan is only a guide. It must be flexible to meet our ever-changing needs. It is not cast in stone. Thank you very much." . D. Charles: "(inaudible due to changing of the tape) words of the last speaker. We are all shareholders here, even though most of us are residents, and I think that that counts for a lot too, although you put down the residents (inaudible). To say that it is of little impact upon this area I think dies in the face of all the statements of those have spoken before (inaudible) the matter of water. We hear that the aquifer is an endless supply and yet aquifers in (inaudible) have gone dry or have suffered from severe pollution as minerals in the soil concentrate and lessen the amount of water. Something like that could account towards the changed characteristics in this local well over here tonight. In the Oak Ridges Moraine, already there are some problem areas that have come to light. I haven't heard this addressed. What I have heard is that the studies here which assure the harmlessness of this proposed venture all say 15 , Ii ì: . that everything is alright, even in the quick scam of the review, I (inaudible) doing the water study for the Township, that they have some questions about some areas that were not well covered and not completely covered. . Also as mentioned, the desirability of having actual figures submitted by Gold Mountain as opposed to unsupported estimates. So, information that's coming to us can be read in different ways, but still there seems to be a lot of unanswered questions. The previous speakers I think were quite accurate on a lot of those questions, and I won't go further on water, except that, I'll leave that for now. In the matter of zoning, Mr. Hanney stated that zoning is just a flexible title. I prefer another view of that, and that is that zoning is something that we've designed to protect what we already hold of value in the characteristics of an area. That is the purpose for zoning, that's the purpose that brings about planning. We plan and zone accordingly. To change that without full consideration of all the facts or the lack of them, to do it readily without deep consideration, not only is self-contradictory for a municipal body, but also highly irresponsible, and I think from statutes taken by this Council in the past, we do have a good record of responsibility, even in matters of water. This request for a rezoning of this site specific area does place, or (inaudible) quite an accountability the large industrial plant in the middle of what is a beautiful rural, agricultural, residential area, and particularly given that we have the industrial sites available, chosen and stated again in our Official Plan, which we paid a considerable amount for, I gather, in 1997. It seems that that would be a much more appropriate way of locating an industry and at the same time respecting Mr. Hanney's wishes for keeping the revenue here, creating business here. I think all of us would like to keep business here, but I think managing its characteristics and its effects is an important part of that. Now about the proposed rezoning here specifically, we've heard talk on the traffic. Certainly if you had a hundred employees in there with trucks working two shifts, that's a lot of traffic. It has been suggested by Gold Mountain that they could restrict the hours to perhaps a shift or something like that, a shift and a half, but that just concentrates the number of trucks and cars at any given hour for the rest of the day. That would be a condition for anyone who is concerned about traffic. It would create a lot of activity, certainly around the roadsides, a lot of potential hazards with vehicles turning onto and off of the Horseshoe Valley Road. where the speed is often higher than the limit. But aside from those features, again, they should be dealt with. . It would seem that this industrial structure is totally inappropriate in green areas of the County that are identified on or nearby the proposed bottling plant. It's been mentioned that this is the source of water for Coldwater River area, and actually it drains into the North River which feeds Bass Lake, so it's a significant source of water for them. There are wet lands in this area that could be affected by the building and the traffic. For wildlife areas, I notice there's an Environmental Study done on the proposed development, and it indicates that there are no problems with that. I would like to point out that the proposed building site lies squarely in a heavily travelled wildlife path, so I question the validity of the study since it doesn't make a point of that. We regularly, being there twenty-four hours, see deer, foxes, coyotes, turkeys, red tailed hawks and ospreys all making use of that very area that's in the picture. It's, somebody doing this study may have missed, but again it is a case of incomplete information. But, ecologically that is going to have considerable impact there. I should mention I guess to everyone here who may not know that my wife and I live in a house immediately to the south of that. We 16 , II presently look out over two very nice fields where the sun sets and cedar swamps, trees, and things like that on Gold Mountain's property and they have been quite unobtrusive so far, I give them credit for that, but this building will be right outside our front window and so we have a deep concern here of a personal nature as well. . Stating certain of the items in the Township, going back again I guess to roads, I'd be concerned that the reconstruction that is required for this and the ensuing traffic could cause blockages of emergency vehicles, service vehicles. We've had days when the garbage trucks and recycling trucks didn't appear on schedule and we were told by the collecting company that their access is blocked by water trucks. There have been times when during reconstruction a couple of years ago, if we needed fire vehicles or ambulances, they would not have come through, so we're not looking forward to that, and I think that that could be a problem to the few residents. That's the County forks there. A few questions or criticisms I guess of the site as we see it there, which in itself raised questions. Boundary locations of this site are not defined in any way or dimensions. The plan does say that it's to scale, but it doesn't mention that this one is so many feet from that one, or that it runs in such-and-such direction or parallel, etc. So we really don't know what is being considered for approval here. I would hope it wouldn't be approved on that basis. The same goes for the location of the building itself within that site specific area. It looks nice there, but it could be quite a few feet either way. We couldn't tell because again it's not a dimensioned drawing. What are we really being asked to approve there? I think that's a good question to be answered with much more complete accurate drawings. Going back a bit to, no we won't do that. Sorry to be slow - I'm not a speaker but we have to get this done. I think the dangers of precedence have been covered (inaudible). Other gentlemen here have mentioned that it's premature to approve further water removal until studies are completed - there is not only the Township's study that has cost us a lot already, but also the Provincial study is ongoing, which still have to come in. And Provincial and Federal Departments and Ministries have expressed concerns over the present water conditions, weather conditions and water levels in this part of the country. Again that's another reason why it would be premature to go ahead with any approvals at this time. I'm going to mention a couple of personal aspects here. I realize that I'm just a resident and a grouchy one, so I should be discounted, but eventually effective reconstruction on the roads, the heavy traffic on the road - this is a small picturesque country road at the moment. If this is built, there'd be from the traffic considerable noise, dust, lights, smells from all those trucks. They're going to create a lot of diesel smoke even if they are shut off, which Gold Mountain has offered to do. On nights like this when the air is still, any odor concentrates there because the prevailing winds blow over our property and over the properties on the 10th Concession. So that is something that has to be considered, and is not considered here. Perhaps it will be addressed later. . There's going to be considerable noise from employees on breaks and driving and moving around, and it certainly will shatter our peaceful community. There will be the noise of processing. Water is pretty quiet by itself, but there will be bottle making in there, some of the processors are noisy, some of them contain chemicals (inaudible) and acids as a by-product. Things to be looked into. We're obviously concerned about the visibility of structures and light and Gold Mountain has offered to minimize this, but we still have a concern that there is 17 .1: nothing in the way of a firm written agreement to undertake these things. I would hope that would become part of any designing of the permit should this go through with the Township. As I say, we don't have any confirmed options yet, but we can (inaudible). . Last but not least, the effect of having an industrial plant move into an area like ours, right beside our house, I feel could cost us many, many, many thousands of dollars lost value to what is our life's savings invested in our property. Okay, I'm just one person, but this could happen to everyone here, beside your investment, beside your life time dream. An industrial occupancy could be moved in under the same precedent that this allows. That is a considerable loss to the individuals, it's a loss of credibility to the body which permits (inaudible), which allows it to be changed too readily and I think that is something that we have to guard against. As I said, planning and zoning is for a reason, it is to protect something we value and that must obviously be kept in mind. I think that if we were to go ahead with approval on this, it should be done well. I think that there could still be a good home for Gold Mountain in the Township, but that's not the most convenient one in many ways, but we do have our industrial areas picked out and I think that is probably the best answer for all concerned, to have the bottling done where bottling presents much less of a problem with transportation and the effect on adjoining properties and all the rest of it. It takes far fewer trucks to take bulk water than it does to take bottled cases of water in and out all the time. So, if we have to do something, let's look at that. I don't really like to see Gold Mountain put down; they've tried pretty hard along the way too, but at the same time I have to be highly skeptical with the final effect of this proposal. Thanks very much for putting up with me and for listening." Mayor Beard: 'The lady in the back with her hand up please." Joanne Howatson: "Hi. My name is Joanne Howatson and I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. Myself and Dave Pryde are property owners at West pt. Lot 2, Conc. 10, Oro Township. To clarify where we are located, we live exactly right next door to Gold Mountain's. We address this Council tonight because we would like to have our position known on record as to the proposed amendments of the Official Plan. 8 I We had some concerns in the beginning with Gold Mountain Springs living "right next door", but over the past five years or so, we have had any apprehensions that we did have diminish completely. Our experience with Gold Mountain Springs, their staff and the truck drivers that we have come into contact with has been superb. If there have been any issues to discuss, and these have been minimal since the beginning, they were immediately addressed and resolved. An amicable working relationship with this company has proven Gold Mountain Springs to be an excellent neighbour. We, Dave and I, in no way support the issues that the Jarratt Coulson & District Community Group have gone to the trouble of printing, copying and distributing. Please allow us to address them individually. According to their notice, if a water bottling plant and related accessory uses does get approved, there will be increased heavy truck traffic on Horseshoe Valley Road. We feel that this increase may be minor given the truck traffic presently using Horseshoe Valley Road. Besides, could it be any heavier or less considerate than the traffic that comes in and out of Horseshoe Valley Resort both during the winter and summer months on a daily basis? We think not. 18 Gold Mountain Springs is willing to negotiate operating hours. Has any other establishment on this road even considered doing the same? Not to our knowledge. . According to the Group's notice, if a water bottling plant and related accessory uses does get approved, a large increase in water demand from the aquifer whose capacity and recharge rate is still unknown. This statement would appear to be at least somewhat accurate. However, it is our understanding that Gold Mountain already has the permits and authorization to remove water from the aquifer. There is continuous monitoring that is required and forwarded to the proper authority. Would the more appropriate approach not be to defer to the experts who know what they are talking about rather than the ramifications that apply given the facts to deal with? Rather than deal with the superstitions or feelings that may not be factual? As stated in the notice that if the water bottling plant and related accessory uses does get approval, there will be the establishment of an industrial area in the middle of an agricultural area. To agree with that statement would be incorrect, given the exact location of the proposed plant. The proposed plant would not stand out like a sore thumb in the midst of lush fields. It would be well camouflaged by the adjacent wooded area. Any agricultural activity that does take place is removed by a considerable distance. If in fact the group are contending that the proposed plant would be established in a mainly zoned agricultural area, then they are correct. It seems to us that you should be specific in what you mean and say when dealing with such an important issue. What about the other bottling that goes on in Oro-Medonte? What, bottling you ask? Yes. It is called Maple Syrup. When there was an amendment made to the by-laws two years back, "there will be no bottling plants allowed in Oro-Medonte", and the question was raised at that time about the bottling of maple syrup. The response was, "That's different". When we went to school, a bottle being filled was a bottle being filled. Our progressive Township Council must have concerns with employment in this area, as we all do. This bottling plant will create desperately needed jobs in Oro-Medonte. Should we all not be concerned about the commute that so many of our residents have to make daily to go to work outside our Township? Surely if we are concerned about our residents and the environment in general, we could agree that working in your own back yard beats battling traffic and the elements for hours on end to just get to work and then return home. 8 The traffic flow and safety concerns on Horseshoe Valley Road could be managed and improvements made that would benefit all the vehicular traffic flow. It is our understanding that if the bottling plant is approved, improvements will be made to Horseshoe Valley Road at the corner of the 9th Line. This is greatly overdue, as we are all aware of the numerous accidents that have occurred in the proximity of this corner - none involving water trucks, may we point out. Again we must emphasize that the owners and staff of Gold Mountain Springs have been very understanding about the needs and concerns of the residents of Oro-Medonte. Thorough discussions with their neighbours have taken place numerous times over the years and we have always been able to reach a mutually agreeable solution to every problem encountered or concern raised. In our opinion, had these types of fruitful discussions, which were proposed by Gold Mountain, taken place at the Township Council level long ago, all residents of the Township would have been the beneficiaries. 19 . !' Î' . I' i We support the proposed amendments to the Official Plan and Zoning By- laws of the Township of Oro-Medonte. Lets make this a win-win situation for everyone, not another round of posturing and drawing lines in the sand which results in satisfaction to no-one. Thank you." . Steve McCreary: My name is Steve McCreary and I'm a new resident to the area. I wanted to make my opinion known at this meeting. I haven't a chance to write a letter, but I thought I should come out and voice my opinion. I'm a new resident to the area. I have a family offive. We're on Part Lots 4 and 5, Conc. 8, and we would be in fairly close proximity to the new plant. We looked for a year, my wife and I looked for a year to find a good farm property and it was important to us that we finally found this place. We were pleased with it and this is where we want to retire. It has environmentally protected areas, and I asked the Township at the time what could we do and what does that mean to an owner, and they said basically, "no you can't develop or put a permanent structure on the EP zone. You can make a path or you could treat it like parkland." So moving to our property was very important, and I'm glad to hear someone else mention about what was above the ground when we're talking about what's below the ground. I would very much appreciate that the ground water study include the effects of what is happening to the ecology and specifically the marsh lands. I don't know if the consulting company - they haven't consulted the neighbours to the west. Are you familiar with the area I'm talking about? Part Lots 4 and 5, Conc. 8?" Inaudible. Steve McCreary: 'The reason I'm asking is to make you guys aware that there is approximately fifty acres of environmentally protected marsh land there." Inaudible: Steve McCreary: "I'm not sure about your trade. I'm not sure about hydrogeological studies, but what you've done, will it affect marsh lands as well?" Jeff Rether: "No it will not. All the testing done to date and the monitoring programs have demonstrated that the water resources which relate to the marsh lands are not impacted at all. It's a deep aquifer to receive water from and there is no hydraulic connection between the deep and shallow aquifers that is measurable." Steve McCreary: "I'll be looking forward to reading your study when I get a hold of it. So to me the point was in an area where there is environmental protection on the lands and the ecology and the wildlife that's in it, why are we even considering having a plant? So it goes without saying, I'm anxiously awaiting the results of the study and I'll take it from there. . I wanted to also ask you, do you consider yourselves an expert in ground water studies? You do? I know where I went to school they had people specifically trained in that area, and I was just wondering if you were one of them. Okay, so that's about the water. I'd like to also ask a couple of questions to these people here. Basically I've heard a lot about Economic Development, that was an interesting word that was used when Mr. Hanney eluded to what he called growth. I'm just thirty- five years old and being an Engineer, I can't help think that when we talk about growth and Economic Development, it's more of a manufacturing. It's my opinion only and may not be shared by others. It's more of a 20 manufacturing than about development processes. I wanted to ask that this, do you have any plans for making anything other than bottled water?" Jeff Rether: "Can I rebuttal that? No, it's strictly bottled water." 8 Steve McCreary: "So we're looking at a plant one hundred fifty thousand square feet to put water in a bottle. That's an added value to this point. That's basically summing it up. I'd also like to, and I'd like to get involved in this, I'd like to find out how you're going to justify one hundred employees. Do you guys have manufacturing plans for what's going inside that building? Do you have designated operator areas, have you designated the jobs for these one hundred people?" Jeff Rether: "There is a similar plant over in Feversham that that's based on. Council has been over that considerably." Inaudible due to changing the tape. Mayor Beard: "...address that to Mr. Shultz if you wish to arrange that." Steve McCreary: "I do wish to do that. Secondly, basically every year, in your business plan for Gold Mountain Springs, what is your projected market share of the water bottling market? Do you have an idea of what your market share is? It is common that you do that sort of thing with a business plan." Bob Shultz: "As far as the overall market, what are you talking, Canada, US, world-wide?" Steve McCreary: "Canada." Bob Shultz: "In Canada, we would probably represent about ten percent." Steve McCreary: 'Ten percent. How many other companies, sir, are involved in bottling water?" Bob Shultz: "I couldn't tell you." Steve McCreary: "You don't know your competitors." Bob Shultz: "I know my competitors." Mayor Beard: "Any questions have to come through the Chair." Steve McCreary: "I'm sorry. I'm just trying to get a feeling because this is going to impact us and I'm trying to get a sense that we need another water bottling plant, specifically one right down the road. There is a lot of talk about a bottomless source. That was the only reason for this plant to be on this property; because it was important for them that this water be bottled at source. So what I would like to ask is how many of your competitors bottle at source?" . Mayor Beard: "Mr. Shultz, do you know that?" Bob Shultz: "I couldn't give you a hundred percent factual, but I would probably guestimate it to be about eighty percent.H Steve McCreary: "Eighty percent of an unknown number of companies. Okay, that's fine. I'm sorry to be like that, I just really feel strongly about the fact that it's one thing to be pulling the water out of the ground, but it's another to have a plant. 21 I don't really see the need to have this industrial area place where it is on the map. It could be down the road. There's no need to put it here. On a personal note, would there be any trucking plans for the 8th Line?" Bob Shultz: "No". Steve McCreary: "So there would be no increase in traffic on the 8th Line." . Bob Shultz: "No, not at this point." Steve McCreary: "Okay. Does the plant have any specifications for output noise, a decibel rateT Bob Shultz: "This is a stage of fundamental (inaudible) Is there going to be a water bottling plant or not with the Official Plan and Zoning? Some of the questions have sought more detailed information on the Site Plan, that kind of detail has not been done. Gold Mountain, if they are welcomed to establish a water bottling plant, will of course follow detailed building programs and layouts will be done in accordance with the agreement and plans at the time." Mayor Beard: "Yes, and I might add that if you're not familiar with the process we will be going through, if this is approved at some point in the future, we will be going through a Site Plan process, which will be much more detailed and everything. There are other processes that Andria (inaudible). Jim." Jim?: "There was an artist's rendering to depict the scale and nature of noise, and there will be more overhead doors involved in the concept (inaudible) low profile building (inaudible) on overhead doors, but a well pitched roof, steel fabricated building, industrial noises are contained on the inside. Yes, there are external sources of noise, and we will be using the building itself to block those." Steve McCreary: 'That's fine. I would be very much interested, but in the two days I get off a year, I don't want to be hearing a lot of noise. Lastly, I'd like to ask, is there part of your corporate decision, Mr. Shultz, may I? I'll try to be direct. Part of their decision must have involved a financial justification; in other words, they're going to save money to have a plant on this property vs. putting it in an existing industrial area. Have you done a financial justification in that area? Are you going to save money doing this?" Bob Shultz: (inaudible). Steve McCreary: "And the money comes in terms of savings of - how do you save money?" Bob Shultz: "You said you were in Engineering. You must understand what I'm saying." Steve McCreary: "No, I'm looking for answers from you." Mayor Beard: "Questions have to go through the Chair. Mr. Shultz." . Steve McCreary: "I think you can answer that in a way that I would anticipate is you're saying you're bottling source should not be trucked in. Is there a reason ..." Bob Shultz: "You're not taking it from the ground and putting it in a truck and transporting it." 22 " ii' . I Steve McCreary: "Is there a marketing reason why you would want a bottling at source?" Bob Shultz: "Absolutely. That is one of the marketable saleables within the market place that they actually would put on a label." . Steve McCreary: "I'm going to investigate that on my own. My question was more, I'd like to know or feel confident that they have done a study to say that having a plant - I'm just concerned that they just want to have a plant for having a plant there. I'd like to know that they're going to save if they think they're going to save money by having the plant there." Mayor Beard: "Well, that's a business decision up to the (inaudible), but what I think here is to say is it appropriate that a plant be there. (inaudible). That's another concern." Steve McCreary: "Okay. You're right. It's probably not the (inaudible). Well, thank you for hearing me." Mayor Beard: "Mr. Baker." Allan Baker: My name is Allan Baker. I live on Horseshoe Valley Road and have resided at that location (inaudible) for (inaudible) years. We didn't expect when we moved to that location it would stay the same. We did move to this area that long ago from Claudia Lake. Ironically, my background is somewhat like the gentleman who spoke before me, and my background (inaudible). In spite of the fact that in that career you use a wide variety of materials, the intent is obviously to have as part of your criteria the improvement of the life of some (inaudible) product. A lot of us are very much in favour of seeing materials used but that process would have to comply with recycling the material. Now I related to this gentleman's comments when I first came up and felt that although I belong to the Jarratt Coulson Group, I endorse every principle that they spoke of in John's presentation. And I also sent a letter to the Township, and I hope it was a quiet way of expressing my own opinions, and some of them are more subjective. What I want to talk to you about here, I have had conversations with a few of the Councillors by telephone, asked them if they had polled us (inaudible) as residents, and I guess the reply I had was 'Well, we only got three or four calls.' My response to that is, 'How much effort was made to solicit opinions from the residents, just the same way (inaudible) why did you not think about (inaudible)?' . The gentleman here obviously has a problem that touched like a bolt of lightning to me because we now have iron in our well. This has just happened in the last year. (inaudible). Now, I hesitated to come up and speak because I felt that with the duplication considering all the points that have been made, perhaps it wasn't necessary. However, on the other hand, I think what is represented instead is agreement, concurrent between people, as well as differing opinions. And I think that's where the Official Plan comes in. I'd like to speak for probably a lot of people in this room who were involved in the efforts of putting that plan together. So now at the risk of boring you by reading you my letter, which is three pages, so sit back in your chair, bear with me on the duplication and I would like to read some of the points that were made. 'I have written you on behalf of my family to express as strongly as possible my opposition to this proposal for the following reasons: 23 . 1. Cumulative Water Taking: There is already far too much water being taken from the Oro Moraine aquifer without enough knowledge about its limits and capabilities. I do want to point out before I go any further that I don't believe the intention here by anyone is to take a shot at Mr. Shultz. I think he's a business man with an opportunity that he seized hold of and is trying to take full advantage of it. I think we can all respect him for that. By the same token, he also seems to have extended considerations to people around him in terms of minimizing the impact of what he is doing on those people. I'm not going to get all caught up on the issue of water taking because that's something that we have all determined is beyond the scope and control of Council. I do want to thank him. It is acknowledged that licensing is a Provincial jurisdiction and it can be argued that Gold Mountain Springs is a very small user in comparison to others, such as Horseshoe Valley Resort. But that view does not justify the complete removal of this resource on any scale without concern for the consequences. Do we need a crisis before we respond to the obvious need to properly conserve and manage the resources which we're so fortunate to enjoy in this Township? Is there anyone in this room who has not been touched by the increase in the gasoline prices. Are we paying enough attention to the total environment and the elements over which we have no control. Look at the water levels in Georgian Bay this year. Drive out to Victoria Harbour. Has anyone been out there? If you haven't, I think you'll be astounded at what you might see. The Toronto Star recently reported that Canada and the US have entered into an environmental agreement to protect our Great Lakes from the effects of bulk water shipments. Will this Province realize the magnitude of the problem it has created by issuing so many water taking permits when it comes time for their renewal? We can do more than hope - we can act through example by refusing to support the growth of this industry, whether we do it locally or whether we do it on a much larger scale. 2. The Oro Moraine Study - the ongoing Oro Moraine Watershed Study, commissioned by this Council, will be an invaluable reference for the Township, County and Province. Council should defer any decision to support or expand water taking by Gold Mountain until this study is concluded and the facts are known. What use would the proposed building serve if their licence were not renewed? Is this simply a ploy on their part to rationalize the licence renewal? Application was made for a bottling plant on an earlier occasion and it was refused by Council for sound reasons. What has changed? Why is it a good idea now? 3. The Official Plan Amendments - Mr. Hanney talked about the fact that although you can't cast stone, I always hear that quote, you can cast concrete. But the notion of the Official Plan is a guideline. It's a collection of principles by which we know in what direction we're moving. This Township was publicly commended for the outcome and the process by which it formulated our Official Plan. Key to this process were the many round table discussions with its residents in establishing the priorities and guidelines for this community's future. . Two of the pillars which have been stated by other parties tonight already in The Vision of this plan are #2) promote the proper conservation and use of natural resources, and #4) manage change to ensure that it occurs in an orderly and efficient manner. Neither one of those implies that we are resistant to change and neither one of them suggests for a moment that we are going to deplete the resource, although you might challenge the statement about (inaudible). Any plan of course is subject to some revision in order to make it workable. But the abandonment of its underlying principles defeats its 24 ¡: :: . purpose and discredits the efforts of the many people who helped create it. Why would Council redesignate a single parcel, one hundred acres, of land Industrial in an otherwise Agricultural area? . Now you must have noted that I'm asking questions, and I think that's part of the reason why we're here tonight. We don't have the answers (inaudible). It seems much more logical however to locate this bottling plant in an existing industrial park such as Guthrie where complete servicing and direct highway access are already available, while also attracting other businesses to that location. In other words, it's an anchor store that every shopping mall needs to have before they consider themselves in business. An industrial park location would comply with the objective of the Official Plan and avoid setting a dangerous precedent for future challenges to the Official Plan. If this proposal is approved, there will be others to test the validity of this decision. This is no time to compromise our principles and planning efforts. 4. Choice of Location - I believe Gold Mountain Springs presently bottles water, or at least operates its business, and I could be corrected on this, in a leased building in Barrie. It has been suggested to me that they will build this plant in Barrie if they are not accommodated by Council in this proposal. So be it. This is a business decision that only they can make, with both pros and cons. If this company feels it has no obligation to locate its plant in compliance with the Official Plan, or within the Township which provides the very substance of their enterprise, it is more of a reflection on their ethics. 5. Tax Revenues - Although I cannot speak with any authority on this point, I do not see why the potential tax revenues from this plant would be any different if it were more appropriately located in an industrial park. There should in fact be some economic benefits for both parties in that locale. If Oro-Medonte's tax rates are not competitive or advantageous compared to Barrie's, perhaps they could be adjusted just as you might do to attract any other industry. In this way, Council and taxpayers would also avoid the unknown and unnecessary costs of providing services on a marginally used concession road. 6. Employment. - It has been suggested that locating the bottling plant at the well site will create local employment and stimulate the economy. This is a hollow theory. Beyond the construction of the building itself, which will no doubt go to the lowest bidder anyway, I don't believe that the machinery or equipment used in this industry is manufactured in this Township or County. As to the actual operation of the plant, the modern machinery used to both mold plastic bottles and fill them with water requires very little manpower beyond its setup, supervision and minimal maintenance. In the interest of maximizing efficiency and profits, this equipment is by choice and design almost always fully automated. As a result, there will likely be a minimal number of jobs which require skilled employees beyond the requirements for a fork lift operator, or pay much more than minimum wages. . 7. Traffic - As we all know, great debates and studies have already been done on the traffic and conditions of Horseshoe Valley Road, but even with the reconstruction of the section between Coulson and Prices' Corners as a result, the road will continue as a dangerous thoroughfare at best. The incompatible combination of slow moving farm vehicles, market garden shoppers, sight seers, residential and commercial driveways, speeding cars and heavy truck traffic, not to mention weather and road conditions, is a deadly mixture which has already resulted in several fatalities in the last few years. Speed limit enforcement is lax and the volume of traffic will increase with the road improvement completion alone. A bottling plant at the well site will add further to both the volume and mix. 25 . , , i i i Tractor trailers carrying empty pre-form and water filled bottles, as well as bulk water tank trucks will travel this road and turn at this intersection. It is very sad to see people become traffic statistics, especially those you know, when a situation like this can be prevented through proper planning. 8 8. Future Implications - most of us remember Buffalo Springs, another planning disaster from a former Council, and wonder if it may also come back to life as present Council has not seen fit to reject and remove this proposal from the books through a sunset clause. With it would be conflicting traffic use on the 9th Concession, a totally unsafe condition at and on Horseshoe Valley Road, and yet another heavy water taker from the Moraine - all at odds with existing users. In summary, I believe that this Council has once again reached a cross road on this proposal, not deliberately, but by being coerced into circling the topic. It is time to face this issue head on with a final and binding decision which represents the wishes of the Township's residents. We thought we had made our views clearly understood the first time that this proposal was put forth, and by helping to formulate our collective Official Plan. Why is it even being considered again? Surely it is not the threat of an OMB challenge which is causing you to waiver. We are behind you in rejecting this proposal, just as we were the first time, unless you disappoint. Thank you for considering these views." Mayor Beard: "Next speaker. Question?" GeorCle Syme: "I'm George Syme. I have been living in Horseshoe Valley for twenty-four years. I want to remind Council that about five years ago, there was a great big OMB process that went on here and one of the conclusions came out of that process at that time was that the Horseshoe Valley Road was inadequate for development along this thing that came to be called the Horseshoe Valley Corridor. Now since that time, between Craighurst and Coulson, not one improvement has been made. Not one safety exit ramp, not one safety entrance ramp has been made, and the traffic has increased double at least. So if it was inadequate then, it's inadequate now triple. I just wanted to remind you about that. Thank you." Mayor Beard: 'The lady at the back there." Leslie Saila: Hi. My name is Leslie Saila. I live on the 10th Line on a farm. We've been there since 1957. Our property runs very close to this property. I think Wilfred Jarratt would be really upset if he knew what was happening on his beloved old (inaudible). I hope I don't cry because it makes me really sad. This whole thing affects us all. My mother used to get involved in these things and since she's passed, it's my turn to come out and support the community. 8 As you can see from all the people here, it's a very hot, emotional topic. Nobody wants to see the water being taken away. They're taking it away and it's not coming back. It's not a renewable resource. It's needed in our area. It's not coming back now. No-one knows how big it is. How can you even accept this application to build this monstrosity in agricultural land when the whole thing has been subject to scandal from the very beginning of their first permit, which was under questionable circumstances through the old Council, and people on the Council be involved as shareholders ...." Mayor Beard: "You're making statements that I would be very careful. We don't know that. (inaudible)." 26 '; . Leslie Saila: 'Was Bob Drury not a shareholder of that property and involved in the initial? That's what I understood." Mayor Beard: "(inaudible) was he playing around? I don't know." 8 Leslie Saila: "Well, he was. I mean I know the parties who owned the land, who sold the land, how it happened, I mean I heard it a zillion times when I was over there, but anyway, the thing is how can you even accept an application when we have an Oro Moraine Ground Water Study in progress, and there's been so much upset and concern by all the residents after this thing is just sort of shot in? All of a sudden they're trucking water out. None of us ever knew about the application for a permit. My property is loaded with springs. Does that mean I just go out and get an application with no-one knowing? How do you apply to the Ministry of the Environment to get something like this happening without people knowing about it? Why did we find out after the fact that the application had happened and was going? There's two questions - how could that have happened and then how is this even being brought to our attention making us all come here this evening, taking time away from our families and our chores for something that how could you even consider it when there are so many studies going on and so many people are opposed? And it's against our Official Plan." Mayor Beard: What the Council has to do is, if somebody makes an application to propose a public meeting, if it is recommended to go to a public meeting, we are not, the Council itself, does not make a decision, and you should not hold any opinions on something until such time as all the facts are known. So that's what this Council is doing. We as a group come to a public meeting and get the facts from the ratepayers, then we (inaudible), and that's the process we have to go through. Of course there will be people here who are saying on principle, 'I don't like this' or 'on principle I do like this', so we have to know all the facts before we make a decision." Leslie Saila: What about polling the residents? There has been no polling by Council. No-one has ever come to me and asked how deep my well is. And we're right there!" Mayor Beard: I guess the only thing that Council can do as a Council is to consult with its ratepayers on almost every issue, and some people think to excess but that's impossible, and consult with its ratepayers like we did with the Official Plan. We consulted with them (inaudible), we consult with them in almost everything we do, and then we have to go back and make a decision based on what we hear. We are far more consultative than I think most municipalities in trying to get people's public input. That's what should come out of this meeting here tonight, because the Council is greatly concerned ..." Leslie Saila: "So do you want everyone here to write also a letter on paper, write you something? Would that help?" 8 Mayor Beard: "You may write it if you wish or you may advise those who weren't here to write to us. We're not going to make a decision on this tonight. Madam Clerk, it has to go back to staff for a report for Council to make a decision." Lynda Aiken. Clerk: "Yes sir." Leslie Saila: "Can I ask a question? How many people are involved in ownership of this plant?" 27 . '~ . . Mayor Beard: "That's up to Mr. Shultz. He does not have to disclose that. That's his business. I don't know. It's not relevant to our making a...." Leslie Saila: "It was just a question. I just wondered how many shareholders there are and how many are in this room." . Mayor Beard: "I'd have to ask Mr. Schultz, who mayor may not wish to disclose that. That's his business." Bob Shultz: "No I don't think so.n Leslie Saila: "That answers my question on that, but I still don't understand how you could even consider this at this point in time with the information we have. And also, I have water problems too!" Mayor Beard: "I would like to mention that I did know Mr. Jarratt a lot of years ago and his family. (inaudible). Are there any further questions at this timeT Rosemary Kinsey: My name is Rosemary Kinsey. I'm a back door neighbour to the property. I thank everyone for talking here tonight. There have been varying views on this and that and I think the main issue here is the rezoning and the application to not just to build a plant but to change the zoning from agricultural to industrial. It's an emotional issue. As many of the other people have said this evening, Oro-Medonte is home for a lot of reasons, and we have come here to farm and we have tried to and we are in the process of turning our farm into certified organic. That means that no chemicals can be used by us, by our neighbouring farmers and we have spent a great deal of money to bring the fields back to restore, what we feel is restoring the land, so that we can produce food that is edible without chemicals which will make us all more healthy. Water is a very good thing. A lot of people drink bottled water and there is a permit to take water from this land. (inaudible due to changing the tape). ....thought that Council would actually entertain, let alone allow, the changing in the Official Plan and Rezoning from agricultural to industrial. I barely have words for how it makes me feel, how it probably makes a lot of people in this room feel. Aside from the traffic, aside from the water table, aside from the noise pollution, aside from not being able to look up at the sky and see the stars from our property because of the light and the (inaudible), all sorts of things as you can imagine at this time, this is agricultural land and I think the use of it should remain agricultural. When the permit for, when the renewal time comes up for the permit, you will have to make your decision then; what you're going to do about it, but I think it would be a crime to allow the building of a plant, to allow the rezoning of this land before the water studies are in and before we really know whether this is doing us harm or not. . There have been lots of ideas proposed as to where to put a plant and how everybody can fit in to make Oro-Medonte a stronger and better place to live, but we want to live here. We don't want to have to put a For Sale sign on our property because it no longer has what we came here to find. And that's a peaceful way of life and one that hopefully will help everyone else in this room prosper. So I would like to ask Council to carefully consider this rezoning. It's horrifying and to end on a lighter note, if we can build a plant right in our back yards maybe we could put a motocross course on that acreage, since we can't use it for farming. Thank you." 28 '.' . Mayor Beard: "Further questions or statements at this time. For the second time. Go ahead." . Tammy Gouweloos: "Mayor, Councillors, Ladies and Gentlemen, my name is Tammy Gouweloos and I live on the 8th Line of Oro. I have a lot of concerns here that have already been addressed. What comes to mind going through all this information is the reporting that is done that's to satisfy the Council's requirements. Is there anything, is a third party hired to do the ecological study, the traffic study, or do they just hire whoever they want? Is there a second party involved?" Mayor Beard: "Which one do you want to explain that. Andria, can you explain that because you're in that area of expertise?" Andria LeiClh: "Yes. Essentially when all the studies came in in terms of the environmental impact statement, the traffic study and the hydrogeological, the municipality asks an independent consultant to do reviews of those. We use different consultants for any different application so that we get quotes back on the type of study, work they're going to do as part of that review and the cost of the review, and we determine what company we are going to use on that behalf when we have those studies reviewed, and that was done in this case." Tammy Gouweloos: "I guess my next question to Council would be these independent people that you hire or look at, do they have any education as to what's happening in other areas of Ontario or Canada, or are they just focused on our area, because there are, I mean, people have been taking water out of the ground for years and years and why are we not looking at what's happening in other areas of Canada or the States when we consider this? I think it's pretty important." Andria Leiah: "Just in response to that, we look at the companies from two perspectives. We like them to have the local perspective as well because that's obviously important, especially in the environmental study to know the existing characteristics of the area, but we do like them, and as consultants, they typically have worked in a number of municipalities across Ontario, so that we do review all of that." Tammy Gouweloos: "Thank you." Mayor Beard: "Further questions. Mr. Baker." Allan Baker: "I'm sorry to (inaudible). I guess negotiations (inaudible). I did notice at the time that you have moved from one hundred and fifty thousand square feet to a hundred, and I'm wondering if you were to negotiate three or four more times you could maintain that equation." Mayor Beard: "I don't know if Mr. Shultz has a response to that. Do you wish to respond to that (inaudible) remark?" Mr. Shultz: "No." , Mayor Beard: "Further questions. Thank you. It's been a very interesting evening. Council wishes to thank all those in attendance for your participation and will consider all the matters before reaching a decision. If anyone wishes to be notified of the passing of the proposed amendments, could you please leave your name and address with the Clerk. Madam Clerk, do you have a motion ....." A tape of this meeting is available for review. 29