2 22 1993 Central Oro Presbyterian Church - MinutesMinutes of meeting at
CENTRAL ORO PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH - TEACHING IN THE SCHOOLS
A meeting arranged by the Committee on Teaching in the Schools and
supporting Judeo Christians Values, was held on Monday, Feb. 22/93.
A good attendance of concerned Citizens - approximately 65-70.
Rev. W. Heath opened the meeting at 7:35 p.m. and related the
purpose of the meeting. He advised that he was late due to the
train arrival at Barrie, where he had met the Speaker for this
evening. First of all he had some printed material of which he
had made copies; these were distributed while he mentioned some
of the contents. He mentioned the front page of one of the printed
copies which referred to the "Awarness Rally" which is to take
place at 155 College Street on Thursday, February 25, 1993 between
5:30 - 6:30: The Toronto Board of Education would be holding Awareness
Workshops on Revised Resoue Guide on Homosexuality. The Toronto
Board had approved an original draft in June of 1993. at the same
time he advised that a copy of this was available at the rear of
the Church and requested a deposit of $2.50 for the cost of photo
copy work. He gave a rough outline of the contents of the material
and the pamphlets to be handed out in conection of same, and requested
the need to pray for the people speaking out against this program.
He then introduced the Speaker for the eveng, Sue Carless from
the Steering Committee, CURE (Citizens United for Responsible Education)
who is a Graduate of University (B.A.), Curiculum Consultant, taught
High School and now vigoursly involved in the present School Curiculums.
Before the Speaker commenced Rev. Heath opened the meeting with prayer.
The speaker commenced by advising that the topic on the "Revised
Guide on Homosexuality", she had consulted with Dr. Joseph Berger{M.D•,
Dr. Mark Holmes, PA.D. Professor and other experts in Psychiatry.
Then went on to relate parts of the Circulum approved by the Toronto
Board of Iduuation, with respect to the Coucelling Service to be
provided and pamphlets distributed. Although she was not entirely
opposed to the teaching of the sexual orientation Program, the revised
draft needs to be addressed on many aspects, in the present formAtth
regard to values and choice. - children need more councelling -
children need more guidance UI would want to be informed along with
my family of the contents of guidance and councelling! Children
may be mis-diagnosed. Two Councellors of the Toronto Board are
self decihred Gays. They are in my opinionhot the people I would
want to have teach my children. Organizations that children could
go to - not the appropriate organizations for children to attend.
The revised draft is much better the the first draft but still leavds
much to be addressed. People cannot believe it is this bad along
with the pamphelts that are available to be handed out. Made reference
to Prof. Mark Holmes comments - Many Hetrosexuals have experienced
strong attraction in adolescence to same sex friends, without ever
becoming homosextuals or developing homosexual interests. i.e. Roll
model. - good relationship with one's own sex before opposittsex.
Ciriculum proposed as early as Grade 9 (Hehlth or Physical Education)
- reference only about adult not about adolescence - can't force people
to change - change may be possible. Counselling has to be wanted
not forced. T.V. - I don't have to or wish to change - Gay activist
has no right to say that others could not change.
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Sexual orientation often at an early age - learned often before
speech, difficulties because of early childhood disruption- some
distant emotions because of marriage, separation, divorce,death.
Needs - Dr. Elizabeth Moberty, an English research paychoogist has
said, a valid love and parenting need is missing. Some did'nt have
love of father - looking for love and need. Ciriculum guide lines
do not refer to that.-
- it says need to come out if you want to be a homosexual
- we need to educate councellors - talk to former gays
- not to gay activists - churches, Religious groups
Phone number - New Direction - Toronto 416-921-6557
- support people work with churches.
- also a group in Barrie
- talk to Clergy
She next spoke about 'talking therapy' and the inhumane aversion
or behaviour therapies which are cruel and unproductive.
The high rates of success of Masters and Johnson (72%)',. Robert
Kronemeyer (80%) and other using the talking therapies in changing
sexual orientation. Reference to artical"(Once a Gay Always a Gay?")
Also reference to a Quiz. - Sex orientation at early age -
some need no searching to change - 20 to 30% can change. - do not
have to remain that sexual style, you can change.
-referred to two specific persons who had been homosextual and after
a number of years of living this life style had changed - early hhlp
to these persons would have been of great value according to their
quote - if you want you can change.
Lower prevalence rates of homosexuality should be taught. Alfred
Kinsey's 1948 10% figure is fraudulent. He only was considering
males. Lesbianism is etstimated to be less than half the rate of
male homsexuai.:ity. Kinsey included dream states, adolescent
experiences and prison population (situational homosexuility,l.e.
a population most of which, when given a choice, reverts back to
hetrosexuality) Today a prevalence rate of 2% to 3% in adults is
more accutate. (see Stephen Straus, Science Editor, The Globe and
Mail, Oct. 12/91.
She made further reference to contents of the Resource Guide for
teachers and how they could be interpreted differently.
Aftdr making some comments on subject matter covered the floor
was opened to a Question period.
Question - If only 1 to 5% of the population are homosexual why
do they have so much clout?
- was there not consideration of positive experience?
- discussion arose from the questions
John Bearcroft, representative of SCBE - related his position
and took exception to the flyer for this meeting - said flyer
inferred thv:t the SCBE was proposing to approve the ciriculum
and guide lines. SCBE is not involved in looking at the program
to this date, and that it is not before the Board for consideration.
Sue Careless in response to this advised that only the Tor:i.onto
Board of Education had approved the prhgram.
Discussion from questions on sexual active in schoolalso arose.
Documentation has indicated that 52% of students are sexually
active - 48% not active and figures indicate 81% no experience
Scott McLeod a teacher attending this meeting stated that he
attended the meeting to ensure that SCBE is not implementing
this ciriculum on Homosexuality. And that he was offended, as
a teacher of some of the content of the flyer circulated for this
meeting.
-3-
The member of Simcoe County Board of Education representing this
area, Gail O'Brien was presented and expressed the wording on the
flyer appeared to indicate that SCBE was or would be giving
consideration to the Ciriculpm on teaching homosexuality in the
schools and that this was not the case - this matter had not been
before the Board for discussion. also she commentikd further on the
flyer and indicated that the wording appeared as hate literature.
Morris Shelswell in response said that since he had drafted the
wording of the flyer, which had received approval fromthe other
Committee Members, he would take full responsibilty for the wording
on the flyer. He said it was sad that we have to meet on such a
topic. The School system had taken - God out of the schools - Bibles
out of the schools - the Lord's Prayer out of the schools and now
the Toronto Board of Education want to present the teaching of
homosexuality in the schools. He then stated that he was glad that
the School Board was represented and pleased that so many had
turned out to the meeting and were expressing their feelings.
A direct question to the School teacher present: Would you teach
such a ciriculum if it was proposed by SCBE? Do not feel that it
is my place to teach their. sexuality. Guide lines have their
benefits and draw backs - Chastity works in all phases of life.
At this point Sue Careless added some further comments on the
Guide lines and pamphlets and books she had read,a lot of books
to reflect the family.
Comments were made on P.T.A. activity and that in some schools
this Association did not seem to be present, if so no information
was ever sent home to make parents aware. Gail O'Brien advised
that P.T.A. was active in the schools. Some discussion arose on
this matter.
Sue Careless stated that Parent advising groups are being invited
to participate. Need strong B.T.A. groups in all school areas.
Many others present participated in questions and comments which
indicated that people are concerned and are interested in what
is in the school ciriculum or proposed.
John Bearcroft advised that parents are able to ask fox and review
a copy of the Ciriculum at the Board office.
Before the meeting adjourned Sue Careless made some further
comments and again asked that ad many people as possible should
turn out to the Rally in Toronto on February 25, 1993.
Rev. William Heath closed the meeting with prAyer.
After the close of the meeting many persons asked questions of
Sue Careless, including a member of the Press present. Others
remained to discuss the matters brought forward through the meeting.
Henry Neuteld, Rev. W. Heath,
Secretary Chairman.
MINUTES
ORO COMMITTEE ON RELIGION IN THE SCHOOLS
Monday October 19, 1992
at CENTRAL ORO PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH
The concerned citizens of Oro and the Oro Committee on Religion
in the Schools met at the Central Oro Presbyterian Church on
Monday, Oct ober 19, 1992 with 12 persons present.
Churches represented - Central Oro Presbyterian
Esson
Oro Station
Guthrie
Hawkestone United
The meeting was opened at 7:35 by Hugh Douglas who acted as
Chairman in the absence of Rev. W. Heath who .is recovering from a
heart condition, after a prayer by Rev. C.E. Buridge.
Hugh Douglas advised that in speaking with Lois LeBarr of the
Simcoe County Board of Education she had indicated that the
Bo,rd had taken a vote and was in favour of retaining the
principles of Judeo Christian faith in its origianal context
in Clause 235 (1)(c) of the Christian Education Act. And also
read an article from the Orillia Packet and Times stating that
the Board was opposed to the Amendment proposed by the Govern-
ment of Ontario to remove that clause, and further that the
Board was to forward_a letter to the Premier of Ontario and
to the Minister of Education advising of the Boards opposition
to the proposed Amendment.
He also advised thAt the Citizen's Committee for Taadional Values
had been unable to make a presentation the The Simcoe County
Board of Education as had been scheduled.
He then introduced the speaker for the meeting, Mrs. Joy Turner.
from Elmvale, who had consented to come to the meeting when
he had approached her by telephone.
Mrs. Turner advised that she had been appointed to the Advisory
Committee to the Simcoe County School Board and that She and
her husband operated the ToJo Christian Camp Ground. She
mentioned that the Committee had first approached the Board
to meet in April, which had been postponed to June,, then to
September. She next mentioned the meeting at which Carole Ann
Stephens had been the speaker at a meeting held at the Barrie
Central Collegiate on October 6, 1992.
She then mentioned the "New Age Movement" - which teaches that
you arereliable only to yourself - meditate - empty your mind
to allow spiritual focus - God like acult - people are used
as the channel. Holistic - taking everything into one, the
person being the centre, not Christ. Teaching New Age - Humanism
and taking away God from their Caching.
It is most imparative now that parents as Chrittians must:
- learn how to deal with teachers and principals and what
is taught in the schools - must get involved
- Comments on T.V. - newspapers, Editor of the Toronto Sun
has been supportive of the Christian standpoint - the
Torn;xto Star appears the apposite = less supportive.
She next mentioned the handing out or making available condoms
and literature on safe sex add read a pamphlet that had been
printed and distributed - some kids would be amused and others
would indicgte that this is not what Is wanted.
Board of Health promotions and literature needs to be looked
into and letters forwarded to the Minister of Health. As well as
telephone calls to the Boards of Health.
Christian voices are on the outside - today Christians must take
an active stand. School Ciriculums now that they are put to-
gether by Professors who appear to lean towards non Christian
support and/or inclusion, rather towards .atheism.
The floor was opened to any questions following the talk. A
number of questions were asked and responded to by Mrs. Turner.
It was suggested by persons present and Mrs. Turner that it
would seem appropriate that letters be forwarded to The Simcoe
County Board of Education expressing appreciation,yof the Board's
vote to oppose the Amendment by the Province of Ontario to -remove
Clause 235 (1) (c) and that this clause remain the same to uphold
the teaching of Judeo Christian Faith and principles.
Mrs. Turner advised that the Committee on Religion is meeting
with the Simcoe County Board of Education next week with respect
to Festive Times in the Schools.
Mrs. Turner concluded by advising that we need to get more involved
in the Community - organize groups to teach children and related
activities of some of the Groups in the Elmvale Community, by
getting time at Community Centres with fun and games for 1 hours
and - hour of religious teaching. Noting that a large number
of the children attending were ones not attending any church. -She
advised that she would be forwarding some material for information.
Various topics were brought forward and discussed.
The Chairman, Hugh Douglas thanked the speaker for her very inform-
ative talk and advised that the meeting had received a lot of
information that this group had never received.
The meeting adjourned at approximately 9:00 p.m. and it waS left
the appointed Committee of this group would meet on Monday,
November 2, 1992, after which notice of the next general meeting
would be announced at the various churches.
Henry Neufeld
Secretary.
Hugh Douglas
Chairman of the
Meeting