12 10 1984 COW Minutes
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COUNCIL CHAMBERS
DECEMBER 10, 1984
of Committee of Council
Committee of Council met this morning at 9:45 a.m. as previously scheduled to meet with
Township Solicitors for review of Legal Services. Every member of Council having been
notified. Present for the meeting were:
Reeve
Deputy-Reeve
Councillors:
S. Davie
J. McEwen
R. Drury
T. Halfacre
A. Johnson
Scheduled Agenda
9:30 a.m.
10:30 a.m.
D.S. White of Stewart Esten
Mr. Rusty Russell and Douglas Christie of Russell, Waite, Christie & Miller
10:00 a.m. - Mr. D.S. White was present at 10:00 a.m.
The Reeve advised that Oro Council had indicated that the matter of Legal Services should
be reviewed and related several matters to be discussed and Council members would have
questions. Then called on members of Council for their questions.
Reeve
McEwen - What Municipalities do Stewart, Esten represent?
Reply
Oro, Vespra, Tosorontio, Wasaga Beach - regular basis
Off-and-on basis Township of Essa - Planning & O.M.B.
Village of Cookstown - Planning also Adjala, Grey County
and Muskoka.
No retainers established - passive but not financial
Vespra & Oro - about the same basis - firm recognized
as Solicitor
Question - Billing?
Reply -
Review quarterly and recite the item and make account accordingly.
specific account with progress payment.
Exception
Question - Generally dealing with a Municipality - how is priority based?
Reply -
Mr. White indicated Municipality where possible try to attend as priority
but in legal profession other clients push for priority which sometimes
causes delay.
Councillor Halfacre - Does the firm feel conflict of interest could appear when clients
want representation.
Reply
In case of Municipal Client the Municipality acted for,
receives preference and Client is requested to seek other
legal counsel.
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Special Meeting of Committee of Council - December 10, 1984
Reeve Davie at this point referred to the Herrygers incident of Road Closing.
Councillor Drury
Reply -
Councillor
Johnson -
Reeve Davie -
Another example -
Further example -
Also
Barrie-Orillia
Airport
How do you perceive two legal firms acting for a Municipality?
Naturally would prefer all one firm and feel Stewart Esten are able
to handle all aspects of legal service. He then outlined the firm's
serVIces. If two firms are used on specific matters - benefits would
not appear out of line.
In this day and age - specialty may have to be considered.
If special areas of legal concern arise firm should be able to
accommodate this serVIce.
From discussions today would appear that previous Council may have
been in error - ie the Herrygers Road Closing.
Other legal firm had indicated to previous Council that once the
Township had requested representation even for one file in the year,
then they would not entertain Developer representation for 18 months.
The Bayfarm representation-Mr. White indicated they had acted for
Corporate work
if Township work is in conflict would advise Developer to obtain
another Solicitor.
The Ron Moffitt situation with respect to private air strip - this
was discussed at some length.
The Larry Torpey matter where judgement had been obtained
apparent previous representation with Torpey by the firm.
some
- Where does the firm stand? Mr. Hermiston had participated in original
Airline Charter Licence for Barrie Airport. If firm sees issue would
advise Council.
- one member of firm - Alf Dick, Barrie Council member
Response by Mr. White - Mr. Dick would declare conflict of interest in City of Barrie
Council should matter with Oro Council arise with respect to
a joint Airport involving the Township of Oro.
Firms Solicitor's Work
Mr. D.S. White
Peter Mills
Alf Dick
P. Hermiston ~ -
W. Leslie j
- Corporate and Commercial
Consider Municipality as
- General and Real Estate
General and Real Estate
general
Corporate
Court Lawyers
Fee $90.00 per hour - Municipality
Corporate $120.00 per hour
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of Committee of Council - December 10
1984
Turn Around Time - was discussed at some length
Mr. White - as suggested if urgent time is of importance, Municipality
should request time limit.
Mr. White in conclusion indicated that one firm should represent the Municipality - specialists
would be called upon if needed.
11:00 a.m. - Mr. W.O. (Rusty) Russell and Mr. D. Christie were present as requested by
Council.
Reeve Davie related how the involvement of two firms of solicitors had arIsen.
Turn Around Time - how should this be apporached
matter discussed and considered.
Format of Questions by Council as with Mr. White of Stewart Esten.
Deputy Reeve McEwen
Firm of Russell, Waite, Christie & Miller has high profile in
Municipal work - how is it scheduled within the firm.
Mr. Russell - 90% Municipal
Mr. Christie- Mostly Municipal
50% of work is Municipal
50% Real Estate and other
Mr. Christie does all By-law drafting.
Question - How many Municipalities does firm act for
on continual basis - 18
- calls for referral or calls received from 50-50
Where Firm is retained by Township
any written agreement with Municipality represented
Mr. Russell - have always declined retainer that is financial retainer
moral policy - if one file is received in one year
would not act against the Township
Fees
Mr. Russell - $120.00 per hour
$110.00 per hour.
Mr. Christie
Local
resented
acent Munic
City of Orillia Township of Orillia - Oro Rama - regular
Gravenhurst - Huntsville - Parry Sound area Municipalities as called upon.
Councillor Drury - How do you feel about 2 firms?
Mr. Russell - keep both firms - good competition
- keep option open
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Special Meeting of Committee of Council - December 10, 1984
Reeve Davie - If acting for Corporate firm outside of the Country is it inappropriate
to put a deal together?
Reply
Would stay away from such situation.
Road Allowance
Closing roads or acquisition of property for Municipality
If a client involved would not act for Municipality or other client.
If Municipality requires legal service for road closing and/or acquisition
- would act subject to property not belonging to a former client.
Are fees negotiable
Set fee for work - should Municipality feel charges for work appears
high, in certain cases may be reviewed. Many questions were asked
in this regard and responded to by Mr. Russell & Mr. Christie.
Will always be some criticism.
Can assist Municipality by advising Developer to complete items not finished on check
list - this could save Municipality a lot of time.
Mr. Russell advised of memorandums sent to Municipalities as update os legislation.
it. By April 1, 1985 - Deeds will no longer be in affect.
Mr. Russell again reminded Council that drafting of By-laws is mostly carried out by
Mr. Christie.
Two Legal Firms
would you have any concerns about the Township usIng two firms of
Solicitors?
Mr. Russell - Feel option should be kept open
Mr. Christie- Would prefer to have all Township legal work.
How should matters referred by Township be addressed to the firm?
(a)
(b)
Usually Municipalities should direct files to Mr. Russell
By-laws referred directly to Mr. D. Christie.
Questions that have come forward today have been necessary items for working together.
RE: Phone Calls
from Municipality ie requesting immediate interpretation - responded
to at the time. Such phone calls not always charged for - usually not
unless specific legal action in place.
At this point Reeve thanked Mr. Russell and Mr. Christie and Mr. Russell expressed
appreciation to attend and discuss.
After some consideration following Mr. Russell and Mr. Christie leaving, Council members
agreed that the exercise had been very beneficial and possibly should have been done
sooner. Communication is very necessary and questions were very well answered by the
Solicitors.
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Special Meeting of Committee of Council - December 10, 1984
The matter of retaining one or both firms of Solicitors to be further reviewed and
considered by each member of Council and presented for further consideration at the
Committee of Council meeting.
Meeting adjourned at 12:15 p.m.
H. Neufeld, Clerk
S. Dave, Reeve