08 13 1981 COW Minutes
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SHANTY BAY COMMUNITY & SCHOOL CENTRE
AUGUST 13, 1981
A meeting of Council, Township Solicitor and Township Engineer with property
owners of Plan M-71 (Torpey Subdivision) as previously scheduled was held at the
Shanty Bay Community Centre this evening.
All members of Council present along with Paul G.M. Hermiston, Township Solicitor
and Stuart N. Keyes, Township Engineer. Reeve R.S. Arbour was Chairman of the
meeting.
The following property owners
of Plan M-7l were present at the meeting:
NAME
LOT NO.
Gary & Bonnie Miller
Michael Hough
Molly Schmiedchen
John & Anne Quigley
Bob Ropell
Elizabeth Hoffman
Andrew Hoffman
Greg & Lynn Owens
Rhoda Mae Thomas
Robert Bowman
Dave Zweep
Stephen Caldwell
Doug Woolsey
Irene & Walter Hayward
20
12
18
22
23
17
17
3
5
6
16
15
14
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Reeve Arbour opened the meeting at 8:15 p.m. and outlined the purpose of the
meeting, resulting from the attendance of some eight property owners attending
a meeting of Council and Council attending at the site.
He advised that the requirements for services under the Subdividers Agreement had
tlbtbeen met by the Developer, L.J. Torpey and as a result the Township presently
have entered into a claim against L.J. Torpey for non-compliance of the Subdividers
Agreement and called upon the Township Solicitor, Paul G.M. Hermiston to comment
on the status of the legal action to date.
Paul Hermiston
Advised that the Township had asked him to proceed with legal action for a claim
against L.J. Torpey.
-The Writ and Statement of Claim had been filed
-L.J. Torpey had retained a Solicitor
-Examination of Discovery had been held (he explained this)
-On Supreme Court Trial List since 1980 and to go before Judge in Barrie
-Supreme Court sits four times a year. Spring of 1980 about 70th On list
but by fall had reached about 10th. Apparently is now 39th on list, fall
or November sitting
-Law Suit proceedings have continued since 1978
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SHANTY BAY COMMUNITY & SCHOOL CENTRE
AUGUST 13, 1981 - MEETING
-When claim first filed, cost estimate submitted was. $26,000.00. Now have
escalated because of inflation, to approximately $36,000.00
-Feel Township has a good case agàinst L.J. Torpey, would be stronger if
services were completed, because of actual costs rather than estimates
-Judgement will ensue from Trial
Michael Hough
Can the Township Case not be advanced, when it apparently came
close in Spring? Any procedures to obtain advancement?
Mr. Hermiston
Would not appear likely for this case since Criminal and certain
other cases receive greater priority.
Several other questions asked and responded to. Reeve Arbour next called on the
Township Solicitor.
Stuart N. Keyes -
Outlined the deficiencies as shown on a drawing prepared and
advised that he had updated the costs for to complete the services
on Plan M-71, which he presently estimates at $36,134.00,
(Standards to Subdividers Agreement)
Advised that his main purpose was to examine and
asked to do so by Council.
review the deficiencies, once
Question
Why were culverts not inspected when installed or were they in-
ferior to start with?
Mr. Keyes
Culverts were new culverts that met standards but would appear
not properly compacted when installed and heavy construction on
driveways would cause damage as a result. Arch culverts in parti-
cular require good compaction.
Damages to culverts as to whether ruptured are best outlined on
drawing.
He also advised that his estimate of costs included raising of
Fire Hydrants between Lots 3 & 4 and Lots 20 & 7.
patching of asphalt at Melissa and William as well as some other
areas
Granular "A" along certain area of shoulders
Cleaning ditches
Chain link fence along C.N.R.
Questions
were also asked with respect to seeding of ditches and whether
same would be reseeded after clean out and responded to
Question to
Solicitor
Regarding procudure once trial date set. What chances of money
after judgement.
Solicitor
As soon as trial date is set, motion to present new cost estimates
Normal course of event - once judgement against party, examine
assets at the time.
Questions
All items deficient - are they normal requirements for all
Subdivisions.
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SHANTY BAY COMMUNITY & SCHOOL CENTRE
AUGUST 13, 1981 - MEETING
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Mr. Keyes
According to Subdividers Agreement for each particular Sub-
division - usually basic requirements are similar.
Further questions on culverts as to why problems with them
to standard.
was material not
Reeve - Culverts not inferior to start with - method and manner of installation
was the problem
Question
Deputy Reeve
Davie
Further
Questions
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Comment of
Ratepayers
Question
Mr. Hermiston
Question
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1)
Problem of ditch at Lot 5 - water crosses road and does not
flow on other side - will this be corrected.
What about Lot 4 which L.J. Torpey owns - Lot requires fill,
regular pond in the Spring.
2)
Could have fill available when walkway is constructed but need
permission from Torpey to enter on Lot.
No road funds are available until road and services are assumed.
Why did Township wait until now, why not act sooner?
(Correspondence on file regarding same)
How do you correct slopes on Main ditches from eroding?
(Rip-Rap was done three years ago)
How do you assure second time?
(Again replace and improve replacement)
Were Consulting Engineers involved when services installed?
(Consultants retained by Developer)
Was there no inspection at the time?
When you have Subdividers Agreement - does the Township have a
Bond
(Letters of Credit for Subdivision-this one elapsed during process
of correspondence and contact with the Developer)
The Township accept letter of Credit - do they accept responsibility?
(Cannot answer question as to why letter of credit lapsed by
previous Council)
As in any level of government Councils change and continue, you
inherit the good and the bad.
We know what has happened, we know what has to be done-now where
does the money come from. (This is a matter that has to be considered
by investigating all avenues)
Should property owners get involved financially (Some Discussion)
Would like to mention that every time a person buys property, their
Solicitor checks with the Township as to conditions of Subdividers
Agreement.
If property owners should be gullible enought to assist in financing
work, would the Township accept payment for such over a period.
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SHANTY BAY COMMUNITY SCHOOL CENTRE
AUGUST 13, 1981- MEETING
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Deputy Reeve Davie
-This Council never met with property owner until
called with respect to ditch between lots 9 & 10
which turned out a disaster.
-I am unclear about the matter of open or enclosed
ditch. How many here want closed ditch?
Appeared all present were in agreement to have Roads and services completed
and not concerned about any enclosure at this time.
Reeve Arbour
Must apply ourselves to complete the Subdividers
agreement.
Deputy Reeve Davie
Lot owners adjacent to C.N.R. have planted trees and
gardens on Bern.
Question:
What is purpose of Berm? Who owns land?
Conditions of Subdivision to act as sound barriers
- requirement by Ministry of the Environment Lands
designated on plan for that purpose not owned by
the property owners along same.
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After more discussion Reeve Arbour again requested that main concern is
to complete services according to the Subdividers Agreement and how it is to be
financed would like to see it done this year.
Comment:
If all of property owners should advance some money and
if the work is completed and no money is received
from L.J. Torpey it would appear the property owners
would be stuck for money advanced.
Reeve Arbour
One owner had indicated property owners would probably
assist financially.
Comment:
-he is not here and maybe that is the reason
-we are being asked to pay towards same.
Question
understand lapsing of letters of credit is not a
precendent, has occurred in other municipalities could
Mr. Hermiston comment.
Mr. Hermiston
The firm has not encountered a similar situation in
municipalities they represent.
Other questions which were not necessarily replied to:
-why not have cost of work applied to whole Township
-otherwise how is it to be financed
-could Township be sued for not having called letter of
credit
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SHANTY BAY COMMUNITY & SCHOOL CENTRE
AUGUST 13, 1981 - MEETING
Deputy Reeve
Davie
Previous Council had in possession a letter of credit which
elapsed.
Believe Mr. Hermiston's suggestiona year ago to Council to com-
plete services is a good suggestion and he is again suggesting
same to assist as actual expenditure for work rather than the
estimate for case against Mr. Torpey.
It was again repeated that the concern is to have Sudivision completed in accor-
dance with the Subdividers Agreement.
The result of the meeting appeared to indicate that the property owners present
did not wish to make a committment to assist in financing of the work.
Reeve Arbour indicated that any help from the residents would be of assistance,
even if cleaning out stones and materials from ditches in front of their properties.
Mr. Bill O'Brien Advised that he had been asked by the Ratepayers of the Subdivision
where he resided that should Council decide to complete the road on this Subdivision,
the same should be done for Shelswell Boulevard.
Question
Will the matter of the completion of work on the Subdivision be voted on
at the next Council meeting.
Answer
The matter would be further considered by Council but not necessarily re-
solved until all avenues of financing were investigated.
Reeve Arbour
Advised meeting of days of Council meeting and Committee Meeting.
Meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m.
Meeting recorded by
H. Neufeld - Ølerk-Treasurer
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