06 12 1989 Public Minutes
THE CORPORATION OF THE TOWNSHIP OF ORO
SPECIAL PUBLIC MEETING
MONDAY, JUNE 12, 1989 @ 7:00 P.M. - COUNCIL CHAMBERS
THIRTY-THIRD MEETING 1988-1991 COUNCIL
The following members of Council were present:
Reeve Robert E. Drury
Deputy Reeve David Caldwell
Councillor David Burton
Councillor Alastair Crawford
Council1or Allan Johnson (arrived
at the meeting at 7:25 pm)
Also present
were:
Ms. Beverly Nicolson, Township Planner,
Mr. Ron Watkin, Township Planning
Consultant, Mr. Richard Vanderzande,
Junior Planner, Ainley & Associates,
Gary Bell, Denton, Brumwell, Trudy Paterson,
John Stitler, Fay MacPherson, Don
MacPherson, Frank Reid, Nancy VanVeld,
Aart VanVeld, D. Emms, William Coward,
Carol Coward, Keith Lees, Helen Coutts,
Dougas Hickling, Barry Barber, Marilyn
Swerdon, Shirley Woodrow, Bob Swerdon,
Jim Drury, Brian Mason, Paul Edgerton,
Len Edgerton, R. Gee, Phil Saula, Paul
Weidman, Fred and Gladys Arff, Chuck Lowe,
Eila Weir, Trudy Walt, Nick Nikolopolous,
and Stephen Woodrow
Reeve Robert E. Drury chaired the meeting.
Reeve Robert E. Drury opened the meeting by explaining to
those present that the purpose of the public meeting was
to introduce a proposed Official Plan and Zoning By-law
Amendment under Sections 17(2) and 34(12) of the Planning Act
The proposed Official PIan and zoning By-law Amendment is to
redesignate those lands located in Part of Lots 19 and 20,
Concession 1 from Agricultural designation to Country
Residential and Recreation Uses; and further to rezone f
the Agricultural (A), and Open Space Recreation (OSl) to
Country Residential (CR), Rural Residential (RUR) and Open
Space Recreation (OS1) zone.
Notice of the public meeting was circulated to all property
owners within 400 feet of the subject lands. Notice of
the public meeting was also placed in both the Barrie Examiner
and Orillia Packet and Times on May 17, 1989.
The Reeve then asked the Clerk if there had been any
correspondence received on this matter. The Clerk responded
by indicating that no correspondence had been received.
The Reeve then stated that those persons present would be
afforded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to
the proposed Official Plan Amendment.
Reeve Robert Drury then turned the meeting over to the Township
Planner Ms. Beverly Nicolson to explain the purpose and
effect of the proposed amendments.
At the conclusion of Ms. Nicolson's presentation, the Planning
Consultant for the Developer, Mr. Gary Bell of Skelton, Brumwell
and Associates, addressed those present stating the status of
the development. Mr. Bell presented the proposed plan for
expansion to the golf course to 18 holes and also the proposal
for a country residential plan of subdivision. At the completion
of this overview, those present were then asked if they had
any questions or concerns with respect to the matter.
Jim Drury:
What classification of agricultural lands
applies to this area to be developed?
- 2 -
Gary Bell:
The Country Residential portion of the
property is Class 7
Jim Drury:
I worked that property a few years back
and it isn't that bad of land. Was there
a previous plan proposed with regards to
a similar development of this nature
within the last year or year and a half.
Bev Nicolson:
Not within the last year.
Ron Watkin:
There may have been other proposalsmade
for this property but no other plan has
proceeded to a public meeting.
Jim Drury:
I am concerned about Agricultural land
and trying to preserve it and with this
development I am concerned with the
surrounding lands and those across the
road in Vespra Township. (Mr. Drury then
quoted a section from the Food Land
Guidelines). Is residential land not
in conflict with agricultural operations?
Does Council wish to guarantee neighbouring
farmers that there will be no complaints
from this residential development about
smell, noise, etc. which is ivolved with
the operation of a farm? The farm across
the road is a pig operation and the smell
from there is quite apparent.
Ron Watkin:
The Developer must satisfy the Ministry
of Agricultural and Food and the Ministry
of Environment standards and policies.
Jim Drury:
Would Council allow an agricultural
development into a residential area, such
as a pig farm? If not, why would you
allow a residential development into an
agricultural area?
Chuck Low:
I have a map showing the Dalston wetlands
and would like to know where this would
be in reference to Simoro?
Gary Bell:
I am not sure what the boundaries are for
the Dalston Wetlands but it is well known
that there are wetlands here. The Township
Official Plan and Zoning By-law recognizes
a large area there as Open Space for
conservation. It is quite possible that
the Ministry will find that the golf course
is a compatible use for this area.
II
Bill Swallow:
This proposal is very close to my house.
Is that going to have any affect on my
well, as I have only a 14 foot well?
Gary Bell:
According to the map here, you will be
a full Township lot away from the development.
Doug Brumwell:
We have looked at the aspects of nitrate
migration which is the possibility of sewage
contamination of well water supply. A
hydrogeologist will be required at the
draft plan approval stage, however our
preliminary calculations indicate that
nitrate levels will be well below the
standards.
Bill Swallow:
Is Simoro going to buy the lot beside my
house to put in a future subdivision?
Doug Brumwell:
Bill Swallow:
Doug Brumwell:
Reeve Drury:
Bill Swallow:
Reeve Drury:
Paul Edgerton:
Gary Bell:
Paul Edgerton:
I Ron Watkin:
Lillian McConnell:
Ron Watkin:
Lillian McConnell:
Barry Barber:
- j -
I can't really answer anything beyond
the development you're looking at tonight.
What effect is this going to have on
fire protection. The Fire Department
right now has Horseshoe Valley, Oro Hills
and Sugarbush and have a fair size area
to cover between County Road 22 and
the 15/16 Sideroad and Hwy #93 and Line 7.
With regards to location of the property,
Edgar would be the department to service
this location. Some of the other more
built up areasare further away from the
fire hall than this particular development.
We-have over 64 volunteers between our
4 different departments, Shanty Bay,
Hawkestone, Rugby and Edgar and we feel
quite comfortable that we have sufficient
coverage with the volunteers. We also
have 4 pumpers, 4 tankers and an emergency
vehicle so Council feels that we are well
covered for fire protection.
What type of services will these development
be seeking.
They will be receiving the same type of
service as everyone else in the Township.
As of July 1st we will be implementing
complete Township-wide garbage pick-up
and recycling and the snow removal
equipment will be coming down from the
20/21 Sideroad to plow the subdivision.
According to the Township Zoning By-law
the permitted uses of land zoned Agricultural
include conservation areas, golf courses,
etc. If golf courses are allowed under
an Agricultural zoning, why are you asking
for a redesignation of land_to expand
the golf course?
The Developer wants to have this proposal
handled with full public knowledge and
review and the best way to do that is under
the planning changes proposed.
What will the benefit of this development
be on the ratepayers of Oro?
The Council at this stage is here to listen
to what your concerns are but not at this
point to answer questions relative to it.
It's a system that exists with an obligation
to go to the public and the developer and
not to prejudice their decision by making
statements in that respect.
What is Mr. Watkin's position with the
Township?
I am the Chief Planner with the firm of
Ainley & Associates and I am also working
in conjunction with the Township of Oro.
I was under the impression that a public
meeting was an information gathering and
communication is a two-way street. I
think Councilor their representatives
should be responding to the concerns of
the ratepayers here.
I live on Lot 22, Concession 1, when was
the last time the proposed subdivision land
was used for agricultural use?
- 4 -
Ron Watkin:
It hasn't been used
last 20 years.
probably for the
Barry Barber:
I can't see this being detrimental to the
area or any problems with it. I would
rather see cars travelling by then 10
gravel trucks. I support this proposal.
Len Edgerton:
I live on Lot 13, Concession 1. I good
friend of my applied back a few years ago,
to the Department of Highways for a
driveway permit from Highway 93. He was
turned down because it was classified as
as Access Highway. It took him about three
years of red tape to get his entrance
put in. When did this policy change?
Gary Bell:
The Ministry of Transportation and the
Municipalities of Oro and Vespra may want
to limit the number of individual driveways
that either front out or back out onto
Hwy 93. What we are proposing is a
a proper municipal road entrance at one
point only for the homes which would be
built internally. The one point there
has been considered a safe and proper
location for a municipal road by ourselves
and the Ministry of Transportation.
Reeve Drury:
Perhaps Mr. Bell you could find the
criteria the Ministry uses and perhaps
mail it to Mr. Edgerton.
, John Hare:
This is just for some information, the
Developers of a golf course at Concession 11
and County Road 22 had applied back in
the early 1970's to the Township for the
same thing that these gentlemen are going
for now. They turned him down because
it did not fit into the Official Plan.
Gladys Arff:
Why are we having spot developments rather
than expanding the existing hamlets which
most likely would not be encroaching onto
agricultural land. There would most likely
be community halls, churches, parks,
ball diamonds, etc. already in existence.
I think all we are doing is satisfying
someone's desires to make a quick dollar
at the expense of all the ratepayers,
whether that be measured in dollars or
the quality of life.
Frank Reid:
I am the original owner of Simoro Golf
Links. There has never been any farming
done where this proposal is situated.
With all due respect to Jim (Drury), he
may have cropped a little hay there one
time. I am in favour of it and I think
it's a good thing for the Township itself.
Don McPherson:
I'm on the south half of Lot 19 and I have
no objections to them putting in this
subdivison next to me. It will definitely
improve the area and the land values
around it. Hwy 93 is built up now with
houses all around so I cannot see what
they are objecting to.
" .
- 5 -
Bill Coward:
I am right in the centre of this subdivision
and I have no objection to it.
Bill Swallow:
My concern is where the road accesses onto
Highway 93 because there is a big hill
there.
Frank Reid:
I'd like to answer that Mr. Reeve. When
I first started up the golf course, I was
told there had never been an accident
on that Highway from Dalston down, in over
50 years.
Reeve Drury:
I had an accident on Highway 93 one time,
I backed out in front of somebody.
Bill Swallow:
With 9 more houses going in and each
house having more or less 2 cars, that
makes an extra 18 vehicles going in and
out of that Highway.
Paul Edgerton:
I also have some concerns with the road
safety. For a few years now I've been
driving a bus along Hwy 93 and if you
have a bus load of kids and are stopped
at that entrance with a dump truck or
cement truck coming down the hill from
the north, it's going to have a hard
time to stop.
Mrs. VanVeld:
I was told by Sinton bus lines that I
was responsible for getting my child
to the assigned spot to be picked up
because of the blind area.
Jim Drury:
I
I
I'm also concerned with the increase it
will have on schools and also the roads.
What would the additional cost of the
plow having to come down onto Highway 93
to service another subdivision.
Reeve Drury:
with respect to the schools, the School
Board will make comments on any subdivision
proposals that come forward, as it is not
within our jurisdiction. There was a
report prepared on the cost of roads
maintenance, but unfortunately our Road
Superintendent is not here this evening
to comment on that. We will be looking
at that aspect later on.
Doug Hickling:
I am the Deputy-Reeve from the Township of
Vespra and I was asked to attend here
this evening to express some of our
concerns. Our Township has several
agricultural operations in very close
proximity, even though the property right
across the road is not presently being
intensively farmed, the potential is there.
I would like to ask Mr. Bell that he
eluded the Agricultural code of practices
in that if that farm directly across the
road was intensively used, would that not
wipe out this subdivision as far as a
hearing for agricultural code of practices?
I
I
I
I,', "
- 6 -
Gary Bell:
We had a preliminary look at the Agricultural
Code of Practice and the Ministry of
Agriculture and Food is doing specific
calculations. To the best of our knowledge
there are no animals on either farms
opposite this and the likelihood that
these farms becoming a major farm operation
is very small. If that were to happen,
a minimum distance of separation is somewhere
between 80 and 90 metres. Our measurements
indicate there is an excess of 150 metres
from either of the barns.
Doug Hickling:
You must consider that this is down-wind
from the farms. Have you had any direct
input yet from Mr. Vanwesinbeck? (Ministry
of Agriculture)
Gary Bell:
Mr. Vanwesinbeck is very concerned about
the protection of agricultural land. He
will be looking very closely at any Official
Plan Amendment considered by Oro Council
which comes to the Ministry. His initial
response is one of concern but once he
has received all the information and facts
and all the considerations of the
Municipality, I feel he will find that
it does conform with the Foodland Guidelines.
Doug Hickling:
Is this cul-de-sac coming to the edge
of the redesignated property?
Gary Bell:
Yes.
Doug Hickling:
Isa one-foot reserve being considered there
to guarantee there won't be any future
development there?
Ron Watkin:
That has been discussed, but no details
have been made at this time.
Doug Hickling:
Has the need for this subdivision been
addressed?
Gary Bell:
There's a builder of private homes in Barrie
who is specifically interested in this
property as well as several real estates
agencies who have a demand for rural
residential, country residential and
estate residential lots. Oro Township
has areas in the north which have been
designated for development, such as Horseshoe
Valley area. There is a wide range of
housing capability in Oro and I think
it is in the Township's interests to meet
the residential needs and demands required.
Doug Hickling:
I would appreciate it if you would keep
our concerns in mind. I also don't think
you're providing adequate fire protection
at this corner of the municipality and I
think you should be addressing that as
well.
Reeve Drury:
We have acquired lands in the Horseshoe
Valley area to build a future fire hall
there to meet the demands required.
- 7 -
Bill Swallow:
Who's going to pay for the cost of
outfitting that future fire hall?
Reeve Drury:
This matter has nothing to do with the
proposal here tonight and it would be
appreciated if you would keep your
concerns specifically to this.
Fred Arff:
What is the rating on the Dalston Wetlands?
Gary Bell:
It's a class 2 wetland. The proposed
residential area is well removed from the
wetlands.
Fred Arff:
How many more homes might be planned
after this amendment?
Gary Bell:
This Official Plan amendment and the Zoning
By-law amendment we are requesting, involves
specifically what you see here tonight.
The Reeve in closing the meeting, thanked those in attendance
for their participation and advised that Council would consider
all matters before reaching a decision. He also advised
those present that if they wished to be notified of the
passing of the proposed by-law, they should leave their name
and address with the Clerk.
Motion No.1
Moved by Burton, seconded by Crawford
Be it resolved that the Special Public Meeting be adjourned
at 8:15 p.m. Carried.
Reev~/: ~