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12 11 1989 Public Minutes .. "~. THE CORPORATION OF THE TOWNSHIP OF ORO SPECIAL PUBLIC MEETING MONDAY, DECEMBER 11, 1989 @ 7:00 P.M. - COUNCIL CHAMBERS SIXTY-SIXTH MEETING 1988-1991 COUNCIL The following members of Council were present: Reeve Robert E. Drury Deputy-Reeve David Caldwell Councillor David Burton Councillor Alastair Crawford Councillor Allan Johnson Also present were: Ms. Beverly Nicolson, Mr. Fred Haughton, Mrs. Mary Lou Kirby, Mr. Ross Raymond, Mr. Bruce Duncan, Mr. Joseph Alfano, Mr. Van Dixon, Ms. Sharon Lee, Mr. Peter Dyck, Mrs. Shirley Woodrow, Mrs. Anita Beaton, Mr. Hugh Beaton, Mr. Ted Beaton, Mr. Barry Norman, Ms. Lynn Murray, Mr. Bob Gauldie, Ms. Kathy Dauphin, Mr. Dan Mansell, Mr. John Hare, Mr. Gord Roehner, and One Member of the Press. Reeve Robert E. Drury chaired the meeting. Reeve Robert E. Drury opened the meeting by explaining to those present that this Public Meeting has been called pursuant to Section 34 (12) of the Planning Act, to obtain public comments with respect to the proposed application. The applicant has applied to rezone lands described as Part of the East Half of Lot 9, Concession 7, in the Township of Oro. To date, the Council of the Corporation of the Township of Oro have not made a decision on this application, other than proceeding to a Public Meeting. Only after comments are received from the Public, Township Staff and requested Agencies, within the appropriate time period, will Council make a decision on this application. Notice of the Public Meeting was mailed out on November 16, 1989, to all property owners within 400 feet of the subject lands and on November 15, 1989, to the appropriate agencies. Notice of the Public Meeting was also placed in both the Barrie Examiner and Orillia Packet and Times on November 21, 1989. The Reeve then asked the Clerk if there had been any correspondence received on this matter. The Clerk responded by indicating that the following correspondence had been received; and further upon the request of Council, read the following correspondence: (a) (b) (c) L. Murray: Correspondence from Barry J. Norman and Shirley A. Norman; Correspondence from E. J. Beaton, M.D. and A. C. Beaton, M.D. The Reeve then stated that those persons present would be afforded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to the proposed Zoning By-Law Amendment. Reeve Robert E. Drury then turned the meeting over to the Township Planner, Ms. Beverly Nicolson, to explain the purpose and effect of the proposed Zoning By-Law Amendment. - 2 - Beverly Nicolson: The Public Meeting we have this evening is for the East Half of Lot 9, Concession 7. The application has been submitted by Alpha Aggregates. The purpose of the application is to rezone the property from the Rural Aggregate (RUl) Zone to the Extractive Industrial which would allow Pits to be licenced on the property. The effect of the amendment is to permit the development for the aggregate pit to allow licence of the pits and development as per the Site Plan. Ross Raymond: A very large area has been designated within the Official Plan of the Township of Oro, which is an area that contains the resource, sand and gravel, in the proportions which are very suitable commercially. This activity is licenced by the Ministry of Natural Resources in the event that a municipality has policies in the Official Plan to permit the extraction of the material and has passed a zoning amendment to ensure that the land use is permitted or authorized under the zoning by- law. The municipalities do have other by-laws to control extraction operations, such as the time during the day which the extraction takes place and regulations regarding the use of their roads. II II II Ii I, . II II I, I' II II II II II I I Here we have a situation that has been discussed in considerable detail, that a new haul road, a road to service the area which is proposed to be located within this Official Plan Designation, is to be reconstructed by the proposed operators acting in the area. The road showed to be a haul road is the 7th Line, from the Pit area, south to Highway #ll. That road has been expressed, badly in need of repair for use by gravel trucks and an agreement in principle was reached several months ago by the operators to undertake the rebuilding of the road themselves. I understand that the actual proposal for the construction of the road by the operators, jointly, of which Alpha Aggregates is one of the parties to this agreement; this proposal is to be made within in a very short time, to ensure that the road will be rebuilt and paved to the specifications approved by the municipality, prior to the work starting in this particular gravel pit. - 3 - ss Raymond: There has been considerable discussion about the physical effects of the gravel pit excavation from this area and hydrogeological work is being done for this application, by Mr. Dixon of Dixon Hydrogeology, and is showing the fact that the water table is extremely deep in this area and this pit has been designed to stop short of the water table at that depth as not to interfere with any existing water table or wells. The final report from Mr. Dixon will be forthcoming. Any wells in the area that are to be inspected and tested, prior to the start of the operation; in terms of the licence, we will ask to be able to monitor those wells to make sure that nothing happens to them. In the matter of other impacts, there is the matter of noise and dust. The equipment that is to be used is improving all the time and we expect to use modern equipment, to prevent any impact from dust in the area. As far as the noise is concerned, we propose to use electrical equipment which is a less noisy operation than the diesel types of equipment used in some gravel pits. rry Norman: I live adjacent to the concerned pit and I understand the gravel to be used is for the use at your asphalt plant that is located by the Cashway at this time. Is there also a chance that it might be located up to the proposed property? M . Duncan: I No, we are located at Highway II and 93 and that is where we are planning on staying. B rry Norman: Do you own that property? M . Duncan: I B~rry Norman: II II M~. Duncan: II B~rry Norman: One of our companies ownes the property. So there is no intention that the plant be moved? No that is a stationary plant, it is not a portable plant, we have put alot of money into it. Did I hear correctly that the roads will be updated prior to operation? M . Duncan: I understand that the agreement with the muncipality, regarding the construction of the roads, is to be finalized shortly. Some of the operations are already underway. It will depend on the negotiations between the municipality and the operators. - 4 - Drury: I think maybe I can answer your question, Mr. Norman. The municipality has been in ongoing negotiations with the pit owners for about six or seven months. It is about a three million dollar project and as you can well imagine you cannot come to a conclusion, with a project that size, overnight. We are in fact asking the pit owners to pay for half of the project and the Ministry of Transportation will pay for the other half. We are getting closer all the time to finalizing this. Norman: Is there some date down the road? Drury: We had originally hoped to have winter construction take place but because of some of the negotiations slowing down, it probably will not take place this winter. There is still an outside chance that some of the construction may begin this winter. Norman: But no completion date, or any idea? Drury: I would say within the next two to three years. Completion, that is with the total road which is from Highway #ll to County Road 22. Norman: How many trucks do you anticipate operating on the road? I understand there is a big problem with control of the trucks, and we have been told that it is also beyond the control of the operators of the pits. Drury: We have been in touch with the O.P.P. constantly to chase down anyone who is breaking the law. I understand some of the gravel pit companies, when a driver has a violation against them, the drivers are fired. Norman: Does your company have any control over your drivers? If you have any complaints, if they are driving recklessly and dangerously, can you do anything about it or do you strictly rely on the O.P.P.? . Duncan: I think we are all in the same boat when it comes to truck traffic or anyone on the road driving recklessly. We as pit owners, our mandate is to abide by legislation. As concerned citizens we have to bring it to the attention of whatever appropriate authority. I do not have the authority to dismiss someone over a driving infraction, unless that person is proven guilty of something. ~ r - J - Gauldie: I live on the 7th by Bass Lake. I have two questions. Is the gentleman going to speak to us tonight on the water situation? . Dixon: We did a review of the hydrogeology of the area and the water levels are about 37 metres approximately, ground level in this area. The base of the pit is to be just above the water table. There are some irregularities, for instance there is a dug well to the east, which is shallower than other wells and the reporting ~ater level is at a depth which would be equivalent to an elevation of about 340 metres. We believe that this well is representing so called perched conditions. Gauldie: It is not how good the road is, it is how good the driver is, when the drivers come out of the pit with that load on, they dont care, the drivers come out of the pit running. What we are after is an attitude change, not better roads, bigger trucks. J eph Alfano: I am an owner of Alpha Aggregates and I can assure you Sir, that in our company, we are a family business, and the people that work for us are people who work with us day to day and there is a family bond with these people. So I can assure you that if there is anything happening of that sort from my pit you can phone me at home. We are not here to cause anybody any harm, we are here to do business in a very respectable manner. Beaton: Concession 8. Am I to understand that should the plan for the 7th Concession restructuring be taken, that all gravel truck traffic will be rerouted on the 7th, therefore prohibiting gravel traffic operation on Old Barrie Road and the 3rd Line. Or are they going to use all three roads? Is there any guarantee that this new route will become The Route? I think if they are going to build this road then you should reroute it all by by-law. Drury: I would like to ask our Roads Superintendent, Mr. Fred Haughton; the truck routes that are designated at this point and which concessions they are? Haughton: The 7th Line is designated as a haul route, the 13th Line and a portion of the Bass Lake Side Road. You cannot just contain all the trucks to those roads, because there are people out there who require aggregate when they are building a home and you can not expect them to use just those roads. Beaton: Certainly a sixty ton truck is not doing any sort of residential construction. I am talking about the big rigs. Could you enact a By-Law to prohibit the transport of these rigs that are not for private use? Is there anyway you can assure us that they will be using the 7th only. I have been run off the Old Barri€ Road as a number of other people have and it is a very frightening experience. I I I II II II II led Haughton: J9h Beaton: II FII, ed * Haughton: III I II H~9h Beaton: I B b Small: II H~9h Beaton: Rli,eve # Drury: [I I B b Small: I H gh Beaton: - I) - We do not have the authority to restrict anything o~ the Old Barrie Road as it is a County Road and it is up to the County. The Township can only restrict on their own roads which they have authority over. Can you enact a separate speed limit for gravel trucks? I am not sure that you can restrict just to truck traffic. This would come under the Highway Traffic Act. There would have to be a By-Law enforced. The municipality would bring in that By-Law? That would depend on whether the Provincial Government would allow it under the Ministry of Transportation Act. That has not been looked into by your Council yet? Not so far. I do not believe there has been alot of complaints come through this office about the 7th concession regarding truck traffic. Is that right Mr. Clerk? Through myself, I have had complaints on the 8th, but not the 7th. The concerns about noise and the comment made that the crushers would be electrically operated rather than diesel; if he would like to come out during the week and listen, you can tell it is not the engine that produces the noise it is the crushing. T d Beaton: I have a couple of general questions. The first question for the applicant is that I believe there has been a study made that it is cheaper to haul gravel by water from the Huron/Superior area down to Toronto than by trucking it by road. Is there any awareness on your part of exploiting this possibility of water freight rather than trucking? B uce Duncan: There are a number of problems with water transportation. The first one being that most of the docking facilities in this Province are tied up by a small group of powerful, influential companies. To get docking facilities in any major port in this Province, is almost unheard of. I II II T~d Beaton: II II II II II II I II I, 'I II II The second problem, a port of entry, is once you get it to a port, generally speaking the aggregate has to be unloaded from the vessel, reloaded onto trucks and then transportated some considerable distance. So it is not economically sound. One general question to Council is, what steps are being taken to construct a contract for the pit operators, is there a standard contact in place? Are you going to revise or update your points in your contract? Is such a contract available for our inspection? ; - 7 - Drury: I am not very clear about what you are speaking of, could you rephrase your question? The word contract, I am not sure what you are referring to. Do you mean a Site Plan Agreement? Beaton: The terms of the working conditions; that the municipality has the right and power to exact a set of working conditions for the pit operators in and outside the site of operation. I am referring to the hours of work, the hours when the machines are turned on and off, controlling the traffic, etc. I just wondered if you had such a contract for a pit operator that we could see? Drury: Bev, what all is in the Site Plan Agreement, or what could be in the agreement? Nicolson: The agreement would basically cover on site matters. Because of the concerns that have been expressed and the discussions that have gone on in regards to roads etc., there may be something that could be dealt with in the same agreement. Primarily, Site Plan Agreement has been used for on site matters. Beaton: I understand that some municipalities have a different set of working conditions and demands than others. Therefore, I would just like to appeal that under our circumstances, that our demands or working conditions would be fairly strict. e Duncan: If you do have concerns about specific issues, why don't we all get together, if it is something that you can enlighten us on, what annoys you and what can I do to alleviate that. Nicolson: We do have a By-Law which regulates all pit operations, what we do not have is one specific to each pit. You are talking of a contract for each individual owner and at this point the municipality does not have that, we have provisions in place to cover all of the owners with the same regulations. hn Hare: I think what the biggest concern of all the people here is the excessive truck traffic on the 7th, these trucks are really moving. If all of these pits opened up and you open up, no one would be able to move on the 7th Line, it would be all dump trucks. Most of the people who work in the pits do not live in the township. One other question I would like to ask, is the water table is basically 120 feet; do you intend to wash your gravel? . " ' Duncan: Hare: Duncan: Hare: Dixon: J hn Hare: B b Drury: i I~am Dan Mansell D uphin with the B Ib Drury: Ii II B~b Gauldie: I I I I Ref ve Drury: II B4r Small: R~þve Drury: II F1rd Haughton: [I !i II I, II II Ii II Ii - 8 - Yes. How many wells will you put in and how much water will you use? That is something we do not know yet. Basically you do not know how much you will drop the water table. I don't know how much water you are going to use, but I am wondering how much over a period of time will you lower the water table? At this time, I cannot tell you Sir! The owner will be required to obtain a permit to take water, from the Ministry of the Environment. The application for the permit to take water will have to be accompanied by a hydrogeological report. With regard to the likelyhood of the losses of water, the operators that I know try to limit the amount of water that they have to pump, they recirculate and whatever losses there are, are obviously going to go back down to the water table. There will be some loss; the losses will be limited to exported water in the aggregate itself that has been washed. Not all aggregate will have to be washed. The water losses will be very small and I just don't see any losses of water supply. One more thing I would like to say to Council regarding the trucks, most of them have two way radios and the moment the O.P.P. are out there with radar, they may get the first guy but that would be all. There are two representatives from the Ministry of Natural Resources here, if they would identify themselves and if anyone has any questions for them. with the Ministry of Natural Resources. Ministry of Natural Resources. I am Kathy At this point I would like to ask Council if they have any questions for the developers and their consultants. You suggested that there has not been many complaints this year and that is right we stopped complaining. About a year and a half ago we phoned and phoned about all kinds of trucks at 5:30 in the morning, the numbers of trucks, and nothing happened. That is why there is no more complaints, why waste our time. I will ask the Administrator/Clerk if he has had any complaints over the past couple of years? It would come to the Road Superintendant, and I certainly have not had any calls. Mr. Haughton, have you had a great number of complaints? Yes Sir. ~ I . . .. - 9 - Drury: Could you perhaps in the future bring those complaints forward in the form of a report to Council? Haughton: Drury: I could summarize them for the year. They were general in nature and they were all addressed to the pit operators in question at the time they were brought in. They were not brought to Council after because of the nature of them I felt they were more directed to the pit owners. Mr. Dixon indicated that there was a dug well I to the east of the operation; is the owner of the well here? Lee: I am from Dixon Hydrogeology and I have been assigned to the property. The dug well is an abandoned well and is on County Reforestation property. Drury: I would just like to make a comment at this point. The road construction that we are considering will be for a full two lane service road. The agreement that we are looking for is for the pit owners to pay for fifty percent of the road construction, which is a real bonus for the municipality. We think this agreement will be in place shortly, and it will be of great benefit because it will not be the taxpayers of Oro that will be paying for the road but the Pit Operators and the Province. T e Reeve after inquiring and ascertaining there were no further q estions from those present, thanked those in attendance for their p rticipation and advised Council would consider all matters before r aching a decision. He also advised those present that if they w shed to be notified on the passing of the proposed by-law, they s ould leave their name and address with the Clerk. M TION NO.1 M ved by Caldwell, seconded by Crawford B it resolved that the Special Public Meeting of Council ( Ipha Associates) now be adjourned @ 8:12 p.m. Carried. c1!lŒ%ßLll '