12 11 1989 Public Minutes
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THE CORPORATION OF THE TOWNSHIP OF ORO
SPECIAL PUBLIC MEETING
MONDAY, DECEMBER 11, 1989 @ 7:00 P.M. - COUNCIL CHAMBERS
SIXTY-SIXTH MEETING 1988-1991 COUNCIL
The following members of Council were present:
Reeve Robert E. Drury
Deputy-Reeve David Caldwell
Councillor David Burton
Councillor Alastair Crawford
Councillor Allan Johnson
Also present were:
Ms. Beverly Nicolson, Mr. Fred Haughton, Mrs. Mary Lou Kirby,
Mr. Ross Raymond, Mr. Bruce Duncan, Mr. Joseph Alfano, Mr. Van
Dixon, Ms. Sharon Lee, Mr. Peter Dyck, Mrs. Shirley Woodrow,
Mrs. Anita Beaton, Mr. Hugh Beaton, Mr. Ted Beaton,
Mr. Barry Norman, Ms. Lynn Murray, Mr. Bob Gauldie, Ms. Kathy
Dauphin, Mr. Dan Mansell, Mr. John Hare, Mr. Gord Roehner, and
One Member of the Press.
Reeve Robert E. Drury chaired the meeting.
Reeve Robert E. Drury opened the meeting by explaining to those
present that this Public Meeting has been called pursuant to
Section 34 (12) of the Planning Act, to obtain public comments
with respect to the proposed application. The applicant has
applied to rezone lands described as Part of the East Half of
Lot 9, Concession 7, in the Township of Oro.
To date, the Council of the Corporation of the Township of Oro
have not made a decision on this application, other than
proceeding to a Public Meeting. Only after comments are
received from the Public, Township Staff and requested
Agencies, within the appropriate time period, will Council make
a decision on this application.
Notice of the Public Meeting was mailed out on November 16,
1989, to all property owners within 400 feet of the subject
lands and on November 15, 1989, to the appropriate agencies.
Notice of the Public Meeting was also placed in both the Barrie
Examiner and Orillia Packet and Times on November 21, 1989.
The Reeve then asked the Clerk if there had been any
correspondence received on this matter. The Clerk responded by
indicating that the following correspondence had been received;
and further upon the request of Council, read the following
correspondence:
(a)
(b)
(c)
L. Murray:
Correspondence from Barry J. Norman and Shirley A. Norman;
Correspondence from E. J. Beaton, M.D. and A. C. Beaton,
M.D.
The Reeve then stated that those persons present would be
afforded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to
the proposed Zoning By-Law Amendment.
Reeve Robert E. Drury then turned the meeting over to the
Township Planner, Ms. Beverly Nicolson, to explain the purpose
and effect of the proposed Zoning By-Law Amendment.
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Beverly Nicolson:
The Public Meeting we have this
evening is for the East Half of Lot
9, Concession 7. The application has
been submitted by Alpha Aggregates.
The purpose of the application is to
rezone the property from the Rural
Aggregate (RUl) Zone to the
Extractive Industrial which would
allow Pits to be licenced on the
property. The effect of the
amendment is to permit the
development for the aggregate pit to
allow licence of the pits and
development as per the Site Plan.
Ross Raymond:
A very large area has been designated
within the Official Plan of the
Township of Oro, which is an area
that contains the resource, sand and
gravel, in the proportions which are
very suitable commercially.
This activity is licenced by the
Ministry of Natural Resources in the
event that a municipality has
policies in the Official Plan to
permit the extraction of the material
and has passed a zoning amendment to
ensure that the land use is permitted
or authorized under the zoning by-
law. The municipalities do have
other by-laws to control extraction
operations, such as the time during
the day which the extraction takes
place and regulations regarding the
use of their roads.
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Here we have a situation that has
been discussed in considerable
detail, that a new haul road, a road
to service the area which is proposed
to be located within this Official
Plan Designation, is to be
reconstructed by the proposed
operators acting in the area. The
road showed to be a haul road is the
7th Line, from the Pit area, south to
Highway #ll. That road has been
expressed, badly in need of repair
for use by gravel trucks and an
agreement in principle was reached
several months ago by the operators
to undertake the rebuilding of the
road themselves. I understand that
the actual proposal for the
construction of the road by the
operators, jointly, of which Alpha
Aggregates is one of the parties to
this agreement; this proposal is to
be made within in a very short time,
to ensure that the road will be
rebuilt and paved to the
specifications approved by the
municipality, prior to the work
starting in this particular gravel
pit.
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ss Raymond:
There has been considerable discussion about
the physical effects of the gravel pit
excavation from this area and hydrogeological
work is being done for this application, by
Mr. Dixon of Dixon Hydrogeology, and is
showing the fact that the water table is
extremely deep in this area and this pit has
been designed to stop short of the water
table at that depth as not to interfere with
any existing water table or wells. The final
report from Mr. Dixon will be forthcoming.
Any wells in the area that are to be
inspected and tested, prior to the start of
the operation; in terms of the licence, we
will ask to be able to monitor those wells to
make sure that nothing happens to them.
In the matter of other impacts, there is the
matter of noise and dust. The equipment that
is to be used is improving all the time and
we expect to use modern equipment, to prevent
any impact from dust in the area. As far as
the noise is concerned, we propose to use
electrical equipment which is a less noisy
operation than the diesel types of equipment
used in some gravel pits.
rry Norman:
I live adjacent to the concerned pit and I
understand the gravel to be used is for the
use at your asphalt plant that is located by
the Cashway at this time. Is there also a
chance that it might be located up to the
proposed property?
M . Duncan:
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No, we are located at Highway II and 93 and
that is where we are planning on staying.
B rry Norman:
Do you own that property?
M . Duncan:
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B~rry Norman:
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M~. Duncan:
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B~rry Norman:
One of our companies ownes the property.
So there is no intention that the plant be
moved?
No that is a stationary plant, it is not a
portable plant, we have put alot of money
into it.
Did I hear correctly that the roads will be
updated prior to operation?
M . Duncan:
I understand that the agreement with the
muncipality, regarding the construction of
the roads, is to be finalized shortly. Some
of the operations are already underway. It
will depend on the negotiations between the
municipality and the operators.
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Drury:
I think maybe I can answer your question, Mr.
Norman. The municipality has been in ongoing
negotiations with the pit owners for about
six or seven months. It is about a three
million dollar project and as you can well
imagine you cannot come to a conclusion, with
a project that size, overnight. We are in
fact asking the pit owners to pay for half of
the project and the Ministry of
Transportation will pay for the other half.
We are getting closer all the time to
finalizing this.
Norman:
Is there some date down the road?
Drury:
We had originally hoped to have winter
construction take place but because of some
of the negotiations slowing down, it probably
will not take place this winter. There is
still an outside chance that some of the
construction may begin this winter.
Norman:
But no completion date, or any idea?
Drury:
I would say within the next two to three
years. Completion, that is with the total
road which is from Highway #ll to County Road
22.
Norman:
How many trucks do you anticipate operating
on the road? I understand there is a big
problem with control of the trucks, and we
have been told that it is also beyond the
control of the operators of the pits.
Drury:
We have been in touch with the O.P.P.
constantly to chase down anyone who is
breaking the law. I understand some of the
gravel pit companies, when a driver has a
violation against them, the drivers are
fired.
Norman:
Does your company have any control over your
drivers? If you have any complaints, if they
are driving recklessly and dangerously, can
you do anything about it or do you strictly
rely on the O.P.P.?
. Duncan:
I think we are all in the same boat when it
comes to truck traffic or anyone on the road
driving recklessly. We as pit owners, our
mandate is to abide by legislation. As
concerned citizens we have to bring it to the
attention of whatever appropriate authority.
I do not have the authority to dismiss
someone over a driving infraction, unless
that person is proven guilty of something.
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Gauldie:
I live on the 7th by Bass Lake. I have two
questions. Is the gentleman going to speak
to us tonight on the water situation?
. Dixon:
We did a review of the hydrogeology of the
area and the water levels are about 37 metres
approximately, ground level in this area.
The base of the pit is to be just above the
water table. There are some irregularities,
for instance there is a dug well to the east,
which is shallower than other wells and the
reporting ~ater level is at a depth which
would be equivalent to an elevation of about
340 metres. We believe that this well is
representing so called perched conditions.
Gauldie:
It is not how good the road is, it is how
good the driver is, when the drivers come out
of the pit with that load on, they dont care,
the drivers come out of the pit running.
What we are after is an attitude change, not
better roads, bigger trucks.
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eph Alfano:
I am an owner of Alpha Aggregates and I can
assure you Sir, that in our company, we are a
family business, and the people that work for
us are people who work with us day to day and
there is a family bond with these people. So
I can assure you that if there is anything
happening of that sort from my pit you can
phone me at home. We are not here to cause
anybody any harm, we are here to do business
in a very respectable manner.
Beaton:
Concession 8. Am I to understand that should
the plan for the 7th Concession restructuring
be taken, that all gravel truck traffic will
be rerouted on the 7th, therefore prohibiting
gravel traffic operation on Old Barrie Road
and the 3rd Line. Or are they going to use
all three roads? Is there any guarantee that
this new route will become The Route? I
think if they are going to build this road
then you should reroute it all by by-law.
Drury:
I would like to ask our Roads Superintendent,
Mr. Fred Haughton; the truck routes that are
designated at this point and which
concessions they are?
Haughton:
The 7th Line is designated as a haul route,
the 13th Line and a portion of the Bass Lake
Side Road. You cannot just contain all the
trucks to those roads, because there are
people out there who require aggregate when
they are building a home and you can not
expect them to use just those roads.
Beaton:
Certainly a sixty ton truck is not doing any
sort of residential construction. I am
talking about the big rigs. Could you enact
a By-Law to prohibit the transport of these
rigs that are not for private use? Is there
anyway you can assure us that they will be
using the 7th only. I have been run off the
Old Barri€ Road as a number of other people
have and it is a very frightening experience.
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led Haughton:
J9h Beaton:
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* Haughton:
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H~9h Beaton:
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B b Small:
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H~9h Beaton:
Rli,eve
# Drury:
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B b Small:
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H gh Beaton:
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We do not have the authority to restrict
anything o~ the Old Barrie Road as it is a
County Road and it is up to the County. The
Township can only restrict on their own roads
which they have authority over.
Can you enact a separate speed limit for
gravel trucks?
I am not sure that you can restrict just to
truck traffic. This would come under the
Highway Traffic Act. There would have to be
a By-Law enforced.
The municipality would bring in that By-Law?
That would depend on whether the Provincial
Government would allow it under the Ministry
of Transportation Act.
That has not been looked into by your Council
yet?
Not so far. I do not believe there has been
alot of complaints come through this office
about the 7th concession regarding truck
traffic. Is that right Mr. Clerk?
Through myself, I have had complaints on the
8th, but not the 7th.
The concerns about noise and the comment made
that the crushers would be electrically
operated rather than diesel; if he would
like to come out during the week and listen,
you can tell it is not the engine that
produces the noise it is the crushing.
T d Beaton:
I have a couple of general questions. The
first question for the applicant is that I
believe there has been a study made that it
is cheaper to haul gravel by water from the
Huron/Superior area down to Toronto than by
trucking it by road. Is there any awareness
on your part of exploiting this possibility
of water freight rather than trucking?
B uce Duncan:
There are a number of problems with water
transportation. The first one being that
most of the docking facilities in this
Province are tied up by a small group of
powerful, influential companies. To get
docking facilities in any major port in this
Province, is almost unheard of.
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T~d Beaton:
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The second problem, a port of entry, is once
you get it to a port, generally speaking the
aggregate has to be unloaded from the vessel,
reloaded onto trucks and then transportated
some considerable distance. So it is not
economically sound.
One general question to Council is, what
steps are being taken to construct a contract
for the pit operators, is there a standard
contact in place? Are you going to revise or
update your points in your contract? Is such
a contract available for our inspection?
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Drury:
I am not very clear about what you are
speaking of, could you rephrase your
question? The word contract, I am not sure
what you are referring to. Do you mean a
Site Plan Agreement?
Beaton:
The terms of the working conditions; that
the municipality has the right and power to
exact a set of working conditions for the pit
operators in and outside the site of
operation. I am referring to the hours of
work, the hours when the machines are turned
on and off, controlling the traffic, etc. I
just wondered if you had such a contract for
a pit operator that we could see?
Drury:
Bev, what all is in the Site Plan Agreement,
or what could be in the agreement?
Nicolson:
The agreement would basically cover on site
matters. Because of the concerns that have
been expressed and the discussions that have
gone on in regards to roads etc., there may
be something that could be dealt with in the
same agreement. Primarily, Site Plan
Agreement has been used for on site matters.
Beaton:
I understand that some municipalities have a
different set of working conditions and
demands than others. Therefore, I would just
like to appeal that under our circumstances,
that our demands or working conditions would
be fairly strict.
e Duncan:
If you do have concerns about specific
issues, why don't we all get together, if it
is something that you can enlighten us on,
what annoys you and what can I do to
alleviate that.
Nicolson:
We do have a By-Law which regulates all pit
operations, what we do not have is one
specific to each pit. You are talking of a
contract for each individual owner and at
this point the municipality does not have
that, we have provisions in place to cover
all of the owners with the same regulations.
hn Hare:
I think what the biggest concern of all the
people here is the excessive truck traffic on
the 7th, these trucks are really moving. If
all of these pits opened up and you open up,
no one would be able to move on the 7th Line,
it would be all dump trucks. Most of the
people who work in the pits do not live in
the township.
One other question I would like to ask, is
the water table is basically 120 feet; do
you intend to wash your gravel?
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Duncan:
Hare:
Duncan:
Hare:
Dixon:
J hn Hare:
B b Drury:
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I~am Dan Mansell
D uphin with the
B Ib Drury:
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B~b Gauldie:
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Ref ve Drury:
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B4r Small:
R~þve Drury:
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F1rd Haughton:
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Yes.
How many wells will you put in and how much
water will you use?
That is something we do not know yet.
Basically you do not know how much you will
drop the water table. I don't know how much
water you are going to use, but I am
wondering how much over a period of time will
you lower the water table?
At this time, I cannot tell you Sir! The
owner will be required to obtain a permit to
take water, from the Ministry of the
Environment. The application for the permit
to take water will have to be accompanied by
a hydrogeological report. With regard to the
likelyhood of the losses of water, the
operators that I know try to limit the amount
of water that they have to pump, they
recirculate and whatever losses there are,
are obviously going to go back down to the
water table. There will be some loss; the
losses will be limited to exported water in
the aggregate itself that has been washed.
Not all aggregate will have to be washed.
The water losses will be very small and I
just don't see any losses of water supply.
One more thing I would like to say to Council
regarding the trucks, most of them have two
way radios and the moment the O.P.P. are out
there with radar, they may get the first guy
but that would be all.
There are two representatives from the
Ministry of Natural Resources here, if they
would identify themselves and if anyone has
any questions for them.
with the Ministry of Natural Resources.
Ministry of Natural Resources.
I am Kathy
At this point I would like to ask Council if
they have any questions for the developers
and their consultants.
You suggested that there has not been many
complaints this year and that is right we
stopped complaining. About a year and a half
ago we phoned and phoned about all kinds of
trucks at 5:30 in the morning, the numbers of
trucks, and nothing happened. That is why
there is no more complaints, why waste our
time.
I will ask the Administrator/Clerk if he has
had any complaints over the past couple of
years?
It would come to the Road Superintendant, and
I certainly have not had any calls.
Mr. Haughton, have you had a great number of
complaints?
Yes Sir.
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Drury:
Could you perhaps in the future bring those
complaints forward in the form of a report to
Council?
Haughton:
Drury:
I could summarize them for the year. They
were general in nature and they were all
addressed to the pit operators in question at
the time they were brought in. They were not
brought to Council after because of the
nature of them I felt they were more directed
to the pit owners.
Mr. Dixon indicated that there was a dug well I
to the east of the operation; is the owner
of the well here?
Lee:
I am from Dixon Hydrogeology and I have been
assigned to the property. The dug well is an
abandoned well and is on County Reforestation
property.
Drury:
I would just like to make a comment at this
point. The road construction that we are
considering will be for a full two lane
service road.
The agreement that we are looking for is for
the pit owners to pay for fifty percent of
the road construction, which is a real bonus
for the municipality. We think this
agreement will be in place shortly, and it
will be of great benefit because it will not
be the taxpayers of Oro that will be paying
for the road but the Pit Operators and the
Province.
T e Reeve after inquiring and ascertaining there were no further
q estions from those present, thanked those in attendance for their
p rticipation and advised Council would consider all matters before
r aching a decision. He also advised those present that if they
w shed to be notified on the passing of the proposed by-law, they
s ould leave their name and address with the Clerk.
M TION NO.1
M ved by Caldwell, seconded by Crawford
B it resolved that the Special Public Meeting of Council
( Ipha Associates) now be adjourned @ 8:12 p.m.
Carried.
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