03 27 1990 Public Minutes
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THE CORPORATION OF THE TOWNSHIP OF ORO
SPECIAL PUBLIC INFORMATION MEETING
TUESDAY. MARCH 27. 1990. @ 7:20 P.M. - COUNCIL CHAMBERS
EIGHTY-EIGHTH MEETING 1988-1991 COUNCIL
Council met this evening, pursuant to adjournment @ 7:20 p.m. with
the following members present:
Reeve Robert E. Drury
Deputy Reeve David Caldwell
Councillor David Burton
Councillor Alastair Crawford
Councillor Allan Johnson
Also present were:
Mr. E. M. Hall, Mrs. Elda Hall, Mrs. Wendy Eberwein, Ms. Lynn
Murray, Mr. Bob Gauldie, Ms. Rene McCutcheon, Mr. B. McCutcheon,
Mrs. Nel Newell, Mr. Norm Newell, Ms. Mary Neyratte, G. M. Holmes,
R. T. Halbgebauer, Verva Smith, Ms. Lois Ness, V. Purdie, Mr. Wm.
Stonkus, Ms. Diane LaPalm, Ms. Edna Morris, Mr. Ron Oakley, Ms.
Bonnie Oakley, Mr. Gordon Keith, Mr. Jeff D'Olivat, Mr. Howard
Caldwell, Mrs. Ilene Caldwell, Mrs. M. Kirby, Ms. Michelle Lynch,
Mr. John Lynch, Mr. Darrell Cline, Mrs. Barbara Cline, Mr. Barry
Cockburn, Corey Fisher, Mrs. Carol Ferrie, Mr. Dave Ferrie, E.
Webber, Mr. E. J. Beaton, Mrs. A. Beaton, Mr. Wayne Burkholder,
Mr. Michael McMurter, Mr. & Mrs. Thomas Moon, Mr. Edwin Abbott,
Mrs. Sharon Hancock, Mr. Buehr, Mr. Ron Sommers, Mr. Allan Baker,
Mrs. Linda Baker, Mrs. June Beard, Mr. Ian Beard, V. Bell, Mr.
Gord Sarjeant, Mr. E. Hulcoop, Mrs. Hilda Hulcoop, Ms. Jean Peer,
Mrs. Dorothy Cooke, Mr. Jim Cooke, Mr. Charles Prescott, Mrs.
Cynthia Prescott, Mr. Carl Caldwell, Ms. Helen L. Macfie, Mrs.
Beryl Boydell, Mr. Stan Boydell, Ellen King, Mr. Bill May, Mr. Jim
Langman, Mr. Earl Robertson, Mr. Bernal Johnston, Mr. Nelson
Robertson, Ms. Shirley Norman, Ms. Marion Saila, Mrs. Jennifer
Hare, Mr. John Hare, Ms. Sandra Cuthbertson, Ms. Lillian
McConnell, Mr. John Hare, Mrs. Elsie Hare, Mrs. Bernice Wyndowe,
Mr. John Wyndowe, Mr. J. Fleming, E. M. Flechette, Ms. Gladys
Arff, Mr. Fred Arff, Mr. Ken Andrews, Mr. Tom McConkey, Mr. Ardell
Gillispie, Mrs. Bonnie Gillespie, Mrs. June Bell, Mr. Jim Drury,
Mr. Mike Gridley, Mr. Rick Saila, H. Kerslake, Mrs. Susan Grant,
Mr. Williamson, Q. Saila, M. Saila, Dayle Frechette, Mr. Roger
Kerslake, Mr. Pat Pollock, Mrs. Gail Robinson, Mrs. Pearl
Robinson, J.D. Heintzman, Mr. Bill Purcell, R. McNally, Mr. James
Cowe, Ms. Shirley Woodrow, Les Jermey, Mr. Bob Johnson, Mrs. Lynda
Johnson, Mr. Ed Dohesberger, L. Dohesberger, Mr. Garth Daniels,
Mrs. Vivien Abbott, Ms. Barbara Keith, Mr. Steffan Bolliger, Mr.
Bob Long, Mr. Ross Slaughter, Mr. Ross Raymond, Mr. David Hulme,
Mr. John Cormie, Mr. David Arnill, Mr. Ed. Murphy, Mr. John
Heintzman, Mr. Show, Mr. Duff Hube, Mr. Ron Watkin, Ms. Beverly
Nicolson and Two Members of the Press.
Reeve Robert E. Drury chaired the meeting.
Note:
The purpose of the meeting was to discuss new information
pertaining to the proposed Official Plan Amendment No. 39,
Buffalo Springs; located on Lots 2 and 3, Concession 9.
This information was being presented to the public by the
developers of this particular project.
Mr. Ron Watkin:
The meeting tonight is established as a
Public Information Meeting; it is not a
meeting established under the Planning Act.
The meeting relative to the Planning Act
for the proposed development was held back
in 1989. Many changes have occurred to the
development, in terms of design, number of
units, and further information that may not
have been provided at the last meeting.
Mr. Ron Watkin:
cont'd
Mr. Ross Raymond:
- 2 -
It was felt by Council, that it was
appropriate that the public be given an
opportunity to view the proposal as it si
today and to ask any questions that you
have, of the development proponents. While
Council has given approval in principle to
some form of development at this site; I
would like to stress that there has been no
commitment as to the design, format, number
of units or that aspect of the development.
A resolution was enacted last night stating
this; that no final decision will be made
by Council until they are satisfied with
all elements of the proposal.
The consultants and consulting team will be
making the presentation to you and
responding to your questions. Council's
basic roll tonight is to be here to listen
to what the consultants have to say and to
listen to your questions.
The Buffalo Springs proposal that you were
introduced to last June and July has been
modified to a great extent since the
original presentation at that time.
In November of last year, Council issued a
suggested set of conditions that would
apply to the development, if it were to be
approved and these are to be regarded as
minimum basic requirements of the Township
for this proposal to proceed. My client
Seeley and Arnill Aggregates Limited and
the team of consultants that we had
assembled for this project were brought
together and we gave consideration to
Council's conditions and began to undertake
the changes that would be necessary to
these proposals.
We have handed out copies of an update on
the Planning report that was presented to
the Council last July so that we could
provide the information to the public of
how the consulting team and the developer
have proposed to meet the Council's
conditions and additional things that we
have been working on in the interim. We
are still not to the point where we have
prepared an actual plan to be submitted as
the Subdivision Plan. We are still
refining the proposal, but we wanted to
bring people up to date so that you would
understand what was going on.
We now have a new concept plan which meets
fully, the requirements that Council has
laid down. First of all the development
concept has changed in the way in which the
plan is laid out. The open space areas
have been enlarged and the number of lots
has been reduced by approximately 42%, to
348 lots.
- 3 -
Ross Raymond:
cont'd
What will be provided now will be houses
that are designed on lots of ~ acre size as
a minimum and running up to well over an
acre. The number of cul-de-sacs has been
reduced, as recommended by the Council,
from 19 to 5, which makes it easier for the
Township to undertake road maintenance.
All of the lots are for single family
dwellings. The majority of the lots back
on to open space or ravine areas.
We are proposing to the Council and have
had some discussion with the Council on the
matter of integrating the open space system
with the Township park system. Nothing has
been decided in that respect, at this
point. We still intend to propose to the
municipality the development of a public
park area. The trail system would be
designed to connect to the public park so
that the connections could be made for the
entire system. It is our intention to
prepare this open space network in such a
way that it can be used for cross country
skiing. The use of snow machines and trail
bikes will not be permitted on the trail
system.
The matter of drainage and the protection
of the wetland area studies have continued
throughout the winter. The area along the
water course is a Class 1 wetland area and
there is every protection proposed to be
offered to that area and is being discussed
with the Ministry of Natural Resourses.
The other wetland areas, we have also
discussed with the Ministry, the
possibility of altering the pond system.
We feel that those ponds will contribute to
warmer water entering the stream. It is
proposed that we would alter them,
according to a plan that would be approved
by the Ministry.
The rest of the areas will be kept as
natural as possible, with the addition of
the walkway, which is expected to be
surfaced with limestone chips and screening
and to be prepared so that we do not have
to do any excavation. There would also be
a number of parkettes, classified as rest
stops along the walkway.
There will also be some wetland areas that
are being used for stormwater management
purposes. They are for the purpose of
holding back water when there is a heavier
rain fall, so that the water does not flush
into the water course too quickly. That
aids in the reduction of erosion on the
ground, keeps down the level of siltation
in the river and generally improves the
quality of the runoff stormwater whenever
it does occur.
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Ross Raymond:
cont'd
As you may recall we have been concerned
about the hydrology of the site and the
hydrogeology. We advised last year that we
intended to construct a production well on
the site of one of the test wells that had
been drilled to a depth of nearly 500 feet.
A production well has now been developed
and the water bearing zone that it taps
starts at 272 feet. All of the surrounding
domestic wells that were available to us
were sur/eyed and some initial pumping
tests were done and then a full test run
was done on this well. It was pumped for
61.5 hours at a rate of 300 imperial
gallons a minute. Immediately after, the
local wells that had been surveyed were all
monitored to see if they were dropping in
producing or would be affected by the
intense pumping of this new large well.
All of the wells were not affected, the
effect on all of the wells was minimal.
The effect on all of the shallow wells in
the area was nil.
We are aware that the municipality has
indicated by resolution that the maximum
number of lots to be considered in the
development should be 348. with that
reduction in the number of lots proposed
for the development, there will be a
reduction in the number of vehicles
entering and leaving the property.
There will not be the sanitary sewer system
that was earlier proposed, all lots will be
serviced with their own individual septic
tanks and tile beds. The water supply will
be a piped water system, eventually when it
is fully proven and in operation, it is
proposed to be turned over to the
municipality and expected to be self
supporting from a financial standpoint.
We will be completing a grading and
landscaping plan when the plan is fully
complete in its detailed form. We believe
that this plan represents a pretty accurate
depiction of the road pattern but there are
some matters, such as, the approval of the
wetland area, staking area, that is still
to be reviewed with the Ministry of Natural
Resources in its final form, so there could
be some minor changes. There could be
still s~~e reduction in the number of lots,
and the actual storm water management
system, grading and landscaping would be
finalized then.
The construction on the lots will proceed
in accordance with a system of
architectural control, managed by the
developer, so that there is a measure of
continuity to the architecture that takes
place throughout this development.
- 5 -
Ross Raymond:
cont'd
We still have a number of matters to be
discussed with Council in more detail, as
we proceed toward the development of an
Official Plan Amendment for this project.
It is our expectation that the amendment
document which will layout the principles
of the project and request an amendment to
the Township's Official Plan, will be in
preparation in the next few weeks, so that
as the final reports that I have spoken
about are presented to Council, Council
will have the full information on which to
base their decision.
Dianne LaPalm:
I understand there is a large fence
completely around that property, will that
remain there?
Ross Raymond:
No!
Dianne Lapalm:
What will you do to separate that property
from adjacent properties?
Ross Raymond:
Around the boundary of the property is
intended to have open space as much as we
can, there are a few places where we do not
have that. There will of course be a fence
around the perimeter of the property, but
not behind every lot.
Dianne LaPalm:
What type of fence will that be?
Ross Raymond:
It will be the standard farm fence, not
barb wire.
Dianne LaPalm:
You said you tested the wells that are
adjacent to the property that were
available to you. The wells that were not
available to you or you could not test at
that time, if these particular properties
have problems with their well once this
proposed plan is in place, what do you
intend to do about those wells?
Ross Raymond:
If we have missed a well, we are quite
prepared to monitor that well. If it turns
out that the well is affected by the
operation of Buffalo Springs, then the
developer would undertake to replace that
well or else supply water to that person.
Edna Morris:
I am concerned about my well. When the man
came to test it, he said it was frozen and
he couldn't do anything with it. Also, on
the map it shows a sewage system, right
here, (pointing to a spot on the map) is
that correct?
Ross Raymond:
This is on the development analysis plan
and that is an indication of a problem area
for septic tanks and those areas have to be
treated somewhat differently when a septic
tank and tile bed is constructed. That is
an indication that particularly special
care has to be taken with the individual
tile beds in that area. Very special
conditions for those sewage systems would
have to be developed and would not be the
kind of system that would affect your well.
- 6 -
Lillian McConnell:
Has Council met with anyone from the
Simcoe County Board to discuss the
educational experience for the children
that may come out of Buffalo Springs?
Reeve Drury:
A member from Oro and Medonte was at the
meeting and that was the only time we
spoke with them.
Ross Raymond:
No, that has not yet been done.
Lillian McConnell:
Do you intend to do this?
Ross Raymond:
Yes we do.
Lillian McConnell:
Have you set aside properties for a
school in this region?
Ross Raymond:
If it is required by the Board, then
that is what will be done.
Lillian McConnell:
At what cost?
Ross Raymond:
I can only say what is usually done and
that is on the appraised value.
Lillian McConnell:
The children that would be coming out of
this we thought would probably be
attending East Oro Public School, but on
further investigation we realize that
may not be the case and it is quite
likely the children will be going to
Guthrie School. Both these schools are
overcrowded and are having a problem
accommodating children. So the children
for this area, at this point, we don't
know where they will be going to school,
is that correct?
Ross Raymond:
That is correct.
Lillian McConnell:
The worst scenario that could probably
happen is that these kids could be
bussed anywhere that there is
classroom space available, which means
that children from a particular family
could be split up and sent to different
schools. This will break down the sense
of community which I think is trying to
be established in a lot of
municipalities. How would you market
that? How would you tell people that
you may come to Buffalo Springs but we
really don't know where your kids will
go to school?
Ross Raymond:
I am a planner, it is my intention to
create a community here. I have to
discuss that matter with both the
Separate School Board and the Public
School Board, in order to determine
what their problems will be. I don't
intend to create a situation here that
destroys the community. I intend to
create one that builds the community.
I believe that our discussions and our
negotiations with the Board of
Education, will result in suitable
arrangements for the children. Whatever
has to be done will be done.
- 7
Lillian McConnell:
My second concern is about the taxation
because it affects everyone in this
room, including the Members of Council.
We are going to be hurting, not only the
fact our children are going to be sent
to a variety of schools, but our wallets
are going to hurt as well, due to
pooling of the commercial and industrial
tax dollars between the public and
separate school boards. What that means
is that we cannot be assured that all
the commercial and industrial tax
dollars will go to public funding. With
Oro having basically small business,
family oriented business, you are more
likely to have the choice of where your
tax dollar is going, which means there
is going to be a drastic change in
monies available for schools.
Recent Federal Funding cutbacks will
likely result in reduced provincial
funding, result in greater municipal
taxes. The ministry has already reduced
funding for new school construction.
Where schools are low on the priority
list, and I believe that the schools I
have been discussing are 4 and 6 on the
priority list; which means that
basically you are looking at a long term
wait. Where the schools are low,
upgrading and expanding of the
educational services, additions, busing,
construction, will come directly from
municipal taxpayers and that looks to be
the case of the East Oro building at
this time.
Lot Levies that are being proposed,
there again you run the risk of it going
to a central fund.
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In an article from the Packet, the
Simcoe County Board outlines that it
needs $60,000,000. Mr. Richard Boswell,
who is the Director of Education states
that there is an expected growth of
53,000. homes in Simcoe. Not only will
new facilities be needed, but increased
transportation, teachers' salaries,
support staff, special education
programs, these will have a definite
financial impact. Mr. Boswell
recommends, "We should communicate this
information to each Municipal Council so
that they understand that growth through
subdivision plans, bring with them
additional costs for the school system
and additional taxation for local tax
payers". Does this Council understand
this? What do you plan on doing about
his suggestion? Well, may I make a
suggestion? First, I would like you to
be in contact with S.C.B.E., I would
like you to have Mr. Boswell meet with
you and explain personally what he means
by these statements, which basically I
will put in a nutshell for you, it's
going to cost us to have this
subdivision and other proposed
subdivisions. So I would suggest you
consider this before you consider that
proposal or any other.
Ross Raymond:
[Jeff Ball:
Reeve Drury:
Jeff Ball:
Reeve
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Ball:
Slaughter:
Ball:
Slaughter:
Hall:
- 8 -
Mrs. McConnell, if you would be good enough
to let me have a copy of your remarks, I will
undertake to ensure that the matter of
education is particularly looked at. There
are some things there that are beyond our
scope, but nevertheless, we will do our best
to try to fit this development into your
proposal.
Further to the matter of taxes, I wonder if
the Township Council has undertaken a
Financial Risk Analysis of this particular
proposal.
No!
Could you explain this please.
A Financial Risk Analysis is recommended by
the Ministry of Municipal Affairs. There are
four criteria which are usually used to
decide whether a Financial Risk Analysis
should be undertaken. One criteria is the
size of the project; if the size of the
project is large in comparison to the rest of
the Township, then a Financial Risk Analysis
should be taken. Second criteria is one of a
major change in Official Plan Policy. Third
Criteria has to do with capital expenditure
and admittedly a lot of the capital
expenditure will be taken out by the
development corporation and then passed on to
the people that buy the lots etc. But
certainly there is a major capital
expenditure required to support this
subdivision and the existing people that are
in Oro Township and I submit that there will
be a tremendous amount of capital
expenditure. I would recommend that you
carry out a Financial Risk Analysis,
especially when it is recommended by the
Ministry of Municipal Affairs.
Thank you, our Council will take that into
consideration.
One other point, at the Arena Meeting, I got
up and I thought I was on record talking
about the hydrogeological matter, I am very
concerned about my well; it was ignored in
the past and I would like at this time to go
on official record to have my well monitored
in the future.
Of the two wells that will service the area,
do you have any indication of which well will
be used more than the other, or will they be
used equally?
The wells will be used equally, one will be a
backup, one will be on for a couple of weeks
then the other one will be on.
I am going to request that you perform a
pumping test on the other well because that
is right across from my property.
Both wells will be in the same location.
I wondered how the construction of the walks
were going to be constructed across the
wetland?
- 9 -
Ross Raymond:
First of all, they are going to be
constructed very carefully. At the actual
crossings of the stream there will only be
one. (Explained by referring to the map)
Elda Hall:
What type of construction would you use
across the creek, say to ski on? Would you
put gravel on it?
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Ross Raymond:
It would more than likely be fairly heavy
stone on the bottom so that water passes
through it.
Elda Hall:
So you really do not know how you are going
to get across the wetland yet?
Ross Raymond:
As I said earlier, only in co-operation with
the Ministry, if the Ministry says we can't
do that in that area, then people will not be
able to walk across the stream.
Jeff Ball:
Just another point I want to make in regards
to that Financial Risk Analysis. The main
purpose of it is as far as we are concerned
is that we want to know what the bottom line
is, and that is how much will our taxes rise,
what percentage?
I would like to know if Ron Watkin or the
Township Planner have compiled information on
possible conflicts that would occur with a
residential subdivision of this size? It is
in an area that is mainly agricultural and a
residential subdivision will be in direct
conflict. To propose the rezoning of an open
space area which is compatible with
agriculture to one of residential which is
not compatible, and to me is a very serious
issue. I wonder if the Township Planning
Staff have looked after that particular
issue.
Ron Watkin:
In response to your question, I am sure you
are aware that this proposal that Council is
reviewing has extended to over a year so far
and we are playing a significant role in
assessing this development as it goes. As we
stated at the start of this information
meeting, no decisions have been made as yet
on what or how it is going to take place. We
have a massive document in draft form, but
because of the changing that is taking place
in the year's time we have not provided a
full scale report to the municipality. We
have met with the municipality on several
occasions to review different aspects and I
think you can see from part of the review
that there is certainly a reduction in the
number of lots that have been proposed; we
are in review of everything that is taking
place and addressing those issues.
- 10 -
Jeff Ball:
You don't have any specific example of
potential conflicts that would occur between
residential land use and agriculture land
use?
Ron Watkin:
I think you have to understand that a
development of this complexity in nature, you
have to review all the information that is
available and decide what we feel is
appropriate for this municipality. It has
certainly been discussed with Council and
what they feel is appropriate for the
Township of Oro. I am certainly not in the
position of providing a committed report to
the municipality until I am satisfied that
the information I have is such that I can
address it properly.
Ross Raymond:
We also want to minimize any impacts between
existing residents, existing agricultural
operations and this development. We don't
expect that the new residents of a
development should be subjected to the
impacts provided by the rural countryside any
more than the existing residents should have
to suffer the impacts of the new development.
We are very concerned about the impact and
will remain so until we have arrived at what
the Township and ourselves believe is a
suitable solution.
Darrell Cline:
Has Council looked to the South on Concession
8, as far as the hidden driveways that go out
onto the Concession Road; has any
consideration for traffic flow to the south
towards Highway 11 been given and at what
cost will this be?
Reeve Drury:
Yes there has been some preliminary decision
given to that, there are some bad hills to
the south of there and we would ask the
developer to reduce those hills and upgrade
the road to standard.
Darrell Cline:
The shortest route to Highway 11 would be
down the eighth concession and that road at
the best of times is dusty, are we suggesting
that the road is going to be surfaced or just
grading done to the hills?
Reeve Drury:
We could have those roads totally upgraded or
we can leave it as it is and that will
discourage the traffic from using it.
Darrell Cline:
Are you suggesting that the developer is
going to undertake the cost of some of these
improvements?
Reeve Drury:
If the road is to be improved the developer
will undertake the costs.
Lynn Murray:
My concern is that the traffic is not going
to go south on the eighth concession but that
it is going to go south on the seventh
concession because rumour has it that, that
is the road to be resurfaced. (Comments on
City minded people)
At this time I would like to ask the Council
to put a freeze on all development until an
Official Plan for the Township has been
adopted.
Marion Saila:
Ross Raymond:
Marion Saila:
Ross Raymond:
Ian Beard:
Ed Abbott:
Slaughter:
Slaughter:
Slaughter:
Raymond:
- 11 -
Looking at this map I feel most of the
building in this subdivision will be towards
the ninth?
Yes that is correct.
So if there is going to be one exit on the
eighth and two on to the ninth, you would
presume that there would be more traffic on
the ninth than on the eighth?
We would expect some of the residents would
go along the Horseshoe Valley Road to Highway
400 and go down that way.
What I am concerned about is the traffic on
Horseshoe Valley Road. There is too much
traffic on that road the way it is, the
intersections are bad, you can't get onto it,
and somebody is going to get killed on it,
and you are going to put how many more cars
on there? It is totally irresponsible to
allow any more traffic on the Horseshoe
Valley Road without some improvement to the
whole road.
I suppose it is considered that the problem
of wells has been put to rest with your
tests. I expect this takes into account the
need for fire fighting. The question I have
is, whether pumping for less than three days
is an effective test of what will happen to
wells when you are pumping twenty-four hours
a day? What is going to happen when there is
steady pumping on these wells?
Normally a well, such as this, for this
subdivision would require test pumping for
approximately twenty-four to forty-eight
hours is adequate projections for a ten to
twenty year period. We pumped the well for
sixty-one and a half hours, which is much
more than what was essentially required, to
make sure that we did quite an adequate test.
The rate that we pumped it at was well above
the maximum amount that we will need to
service these lots. The rate we pumped it at
was actually several times the actual average
daily rate.
Have you given consideration to the needs for
fighting fire?
Yes we have, hydrants are proposed and so is
an elevated storage reservoir.
You are able to assure all the surrounding
people that pumping steadily on this well
will have no more affect on their water
table.
We will do a projection and we have not done
our final analysis but some of that draw down
that is showing on some of those wells, may
be because of local pumping. We have net
completed our final analysis but we can
project it.
Ross Slaughter will be doing an aquifer
evaluation report which will be available to
the public.
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iiReeve Drury:
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¡Ross Slaughter:
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Slaughter:
Hare:
Raymond:
- 12 -
What affect would this have if these
tests were done in the height of the
summer after perhaps we have had a dry
summer? I am one of these people with
a very shallow well.
Our tests show that there is no affect
on the shallow wells. As far as the
affect in the height of the summer, we
have taken that into account in our
analysis.
The surrounding wells will be
protected by the Ministry of
Environment. Also there will be a
certificate of waterworks approval for
the water system, issued again by the
Ministry of Environment and we will
have to follow their guidelines and
their guidelines take into account,
storage for fire fighting, etc.
Who will be responsible for
maintaining the purity of these wells?
How regularly will they be checked?
My understanding is that after
everything is in place, then it would
be owned and operated by the Township.
The Township would look after it and
it would be done on a daily basis
which is required by the Ministry of
Environment and all costs would be
borne by the people living in the
development.
How big a reservoir do you intend to
have?
I don't have the figures with me
because we do not have the final
design but probably in the
neighbourhood of 200,000 gallons.
I would say it would be between
200,000 and 250,000, I am quoting this
from the underwriters. All your water
mains will meet Township requirements,
what would that be?
They would be minimum 6" water mains.
Basically a thing of this size should
have S" and 1O".
No, lots of those mains would be
adequate at 6" mains.
I do not see anywhere on the map, a
location of a Fire station; is there
any allowance for a Fire Station?
Not at this time.
John Hare:
Reeve Drury:
John Hare:
Reeve Drury:
John Hare:
Ross Raymond:
John Hare:
Ed Hall:
- 13 -
It seems to be felt that because of the location
of the two closest Fire Halls, one at Edgar and
one at Rugby, there should be another Fire Hall
because of the distance being over five miles.
Would the developer be supplying the Fire Hall
Fire Trucks or would it be assumed by the
residents' of the Township?
The Township of Oro has acquired some land from
the Horseshoe Valley Development on the East Side
of the fourth concession for a Fire Hall and we
presume that some time in the future there will
a Fire Hall built there, which will be in the
mile radius of this proposed development.
Who would supply the 850 pumper required;
which would run in the neighbourhood of $250,000
to $300,000. would the Township?
I would expect if this development went forward
there would be approximately one million dollars
in lot levies and from that we would acquire what
fire fighting equipment we would require. That
what lot levies are for.
All the drainage and pollution that will go into
that stream (pointing to the map) will go into
Bass Lake and that lake is in trouble now because
of other development in Orillia. (Commented on
runoff into the Coldwater River and pollution.
Also commented on walkways, said he felt you
not put limestone down because the area is too
soft).
All of those points have been noted down and I
want you to understand that we are aware of those
problems and as I explained earlier, we are doing
our part to carefully design this subdivision so
that all of those concerns. concerning the stream
and the quality of the runoff water into other
areas is looked after. If the Ministry of
Resources is not prepared to approve one of
proposals, then it will have to be modified
they are able to approve it, or we won't be
to develop. We are not here to damage this
neighbourhood; that is not our intent, we are
professional people and we expect to do a first
class job.
our
until
able
This should be adjoining to the City of Barrie or
Orillia which can supply you with proper sewers,
proper water, proper Fire Department, Policing
everything else, then it would be a marvelous
thing.
My purpose here is to prove to you that certain
destruction of Coulson Creek wetland will result
if you approve the Buffalo Springs Development.
(Read from documents produced by the developers
consultants and correspondence from the Ministry
of Natural Resources) (Stated that he had copies
of letters for Council)
We cannot rely on Seeley and Arnill to protect
Coulson Creek and sensitive wetlands on this
property. According to reports by the Barrie
Examiner, this same company is presently facing
thirty-one charges by the M.O.E. with fines
totalling $3,000,000. in connection with
enviromental damage in the Wasaga Beach Area.
Ed Hall:
Mike McMurter:
Bill Purcell:
Ross Raymond:
Ron Watkin:
- 14 -
In conclusion, I have proven to you the sensit
nature of this stream and wetland and its
connection to the proposed development site and
further, the certainty of its destruction if
Buffalo Springs is built. I believe it has
been shown that we cannot rely on the Ministry
Natural Resourses to protect this system; the
only group, we the people of Oro can depend on
protect Coulson Creek, its wetlands, is the
Council of the Township.
It appears to me that there are enough risks
we have traffic, we have financial, water,
concerns, tax concerns, etc. and I wonder how
people here tonight are convinced, after all
arguments that this is a good development.
You can pump a well for sixty-one hours but
is going to happen to it in ten or twenty years
and where is the developer going to be in
years; are they going to come with money in
to fix somebody's well?
(Read from article in the Sun re: the Rouge
Valley)
I am representing the residents at Big Cedar
Estates. We are concerned on the environmental
impact on Bass Lake, have you considered this
developing this project and would you care to
comment on it?
Yes we have. (Explained in a little more deta
We are expecting to manage that water runoff in
careful and responsible way and to the approval
the Ministry of the Environment and the
has increasingly been improving their standards
for the design of subdivisions right across the
Province. They have, in the past two or three
years, improved radically on the standards that
they have permitted for rural subdivisions.
I am not saying that there is no impact on the
remainder of the area around this development,
course there is an impact. We are asking the
municipality to consider those impacts, almost
individually. We recognize the fact that you
would prefer that we would go away. We have
in this development to bring you the
about it prior to it being a faceoff type of
confrontation with the Councilor something that
would go before the Ontario Municipal Board.
have tried and will continue to try to resolve
concerns that you have presented.
If Council turns down the application then the
application dies. If Council approves the
application then the details of it are
to you in documents that you can then consider
if you wish to appeal and have the matter heard
before the Ontario Municipal Board, that is a
right and no one wishes to interfere with that
right.
I want to thank you for your attention to our
proposals tonight and thank you for your
questions; we have made careful notes, as we
at each of the meetings. We intend to respond
best we are able to the questions received and
will do everything we can to produce a proposal
which is fair, reasonable and of the smallest
impact that we can develop.
Are there any further questions?
Jim Cowie:
Reeve Drury:
Lillian McConnell:
Ron Watkin:
Lillian McConnell:
Ron Watkin:
Ed Hall:
Ron Watkin:
stan Boydell:
John Wyndowe:
- 15 -
You propose to put a 350 home development, the
size of a small town, the area has extensive
wetlands and is environmentally sensitive. We
know our environment will suffer, our schools
will burst at the seams and our taxes will
significantly increase. The bottom line is
why? As a ratepayer of Oro, I would like
someone to explain to me, what is the reason
for this development?
There is no development at this point, there
a proposal before us and Council has not made
final decision on this proposal.
Where do we go from here?
As the result of this meeting I will finalize
what has turned out to be a year long report.
The report will be finalized within the next
two to three weeks and will be submitted to
Council.
Is that report just on Buffalo Springs?
The report specifically deals with Buffalo
Springs but it also addresses this form of
development within the municipality
(Pointing to different areas on the map) In
consulting with the Health Unit I inquired as
to why different areas were being filled.
indicated that they are to provide minimum
requirements for septic bed locations.
the ground water is so close to the surface
can't put a tile bed in, so the answer is to
put four feet of fill then put the tile bed
in. I submit to bury wetland, is more than
damaging the environment, it's complete
destruction of it.
Those areas that Mr. Hall indicated are
certainly there. Those are areas that the
Health Unit has identified on the subject
property that will have to be looked at in a
special way. It is not to say those areas
be allowed or not allowed and if I remember
correctly in reading the Health Unit's letter
there is only one of those areas that they
concern about.
What I am trying to indicate to you is that
providing fill for the tile bedded area is not
an unacceptable approach in this County or
Ontario.
(Commented on politicians spending your money
and mine and problems taking place in various
municipalities) (Also commented on planning
taking place in the Township without
notification to ratepayers re: Airport)
I would suggest to our Council, listen to what
we are saying and act on our behalf.
I have a shallow well and now our expert tells
us that the water level is apt to go down
or four feet. I am looking in the summer to
have three or four feet of water. Now I am
going to be faced with an expenditure of
$5,000. or $10,000. to dig a deep well.
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¡reeve Drury: Are there any more questions this evening?
i~eeve Drury thanked the public for all their questions and comments
I nd.s~ated that it would help Council to formulate a further
eC1Slon.
I
I~ouncil's decision will be forthcoming, within the next few months.
I~eeve Drury also thanked the developer for bringing the new
I~nformation forward and for letting the public know what exactly was
1¡_e"O"i"' i" "" '"ffeio 'Dei""~ Do"oiopm"""
\1
rOTION NO. I
ltoved by Burton, seconded by Crawford
e it resolved that the Special Public Meeting of
ouncil (Buffalo Springs) now be adjourned @ 9:35 p.m.
I
- 16 -
Wyndowe:
Also, there is going to be a thousand cars a
day pass my front door. How long is that road
going to last? How soon will it be until they
have to make it four lanes? This is not why I
bought in Oro. Now I would like to hear from
Mr. Drury; what's in it for us in this
development?
You indicated you had moved to Oro ten years
ago. I would like to see a show of hands how
many people have lived in Oro for more than
fifty years. Six people! In other words, if
development had been put on hold fifty years
ago, we wouldn't have to worry about this
public meeting here tonight. You were all
allowed, as I was allowed, to move to Oro
Township, and I think the opportunity should be
there for anyone in this Province to move to
any place they want.
Oro Township has not finalized the plans in
this development, it has gone from 572 lots to
348 lots, which is a much more realistic
development for that area.
Carried.
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Ireeye Robert E. Dr
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CI~~t W. Small