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09 04 1990 Public Minutes , I' ", THE CORPORATION OF THE TOWNSHIP OF ORO SPECIAL PUBLIC MEETING TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 4, 1990, @ 7:58 P.M. - COUNCIL CHAMBERS 0 E HUNDREDTH AND ELEVENTH MEETING 1988-1991 COUNCIL i T~e following II J~.n" A~~O Present II 11 I II Ii members of Council were present: Were: Ii " I " II Ii II II ,I Ii Reeve Robert E. Drury Deputy Reeve David Caldwell Councillor Alastair Crawford Councillor Allan Johnson Councillor David Burton Mr. Ron Watkin, Mr. R. Vandezande, Mr. Frank Tecklenburg, Mr. Dino Sardelis, Mr. Nelson Robertson, Mr. Earl Robertson, Mr. Morely Shelswell, Mr. Fleming, Mrs. Shirley Woodrow, Mr. Ray Powell, Mr. Ray Bowes, Mrs. Lynda Aiken, Mr. Ron Sommers, Mr. Gary Tonge, Ms. Linda Thome, L. Lilson, Ms. Sue Lilson, Mr. Rocco Calautti, Mr. Jeff Ball, Ms. Hope Anderson, Ms. Mary Anderson, Mr. Bob Toffan, Ms. Sheree Toffan, Ms. Helen Toffan, Mr. Ron Toffan f Mr. James Zerny, Mr. John Higgins, C.F. Carthy, Mr. Robert Vieira, Ms. Karen Vieira, Mr. Carl Cumming, J. Vanden Heuvel, Mr. Martin Vanden Heuvl, B. Galipeau, Mr. Dave Viney, Ms. Kim Viney, Mr. Bob Murray, Ms. Eileen Murray, Mrs. Shirley Woodrow, Mr. Tim Crawford, Ms. Ilene Crawford, Ms. T. Paterson, Skelton, Brumwell & Associates, Ms. Pat Pollock, Mrs. Gail Robinson, Mrs. Pearl Robinson, Mr. John Palmur, B. Vitt, Mr. John Kotsopoulos, J.A. Bragg, Ms. Marjory Hall, Mr. William J. Jones, M. J. Jones, Mr. Alfred Perkin, Ms. Vivian Bell, Mr. Ken Bell, Mr. Kimle, Ms. Annette Pope, Norah Raiku, Mr. John Muckleston, E. M. James, Mr. Alan Worobec, Ms. Eileen Schwartz, Ms. Myrna Wesley, J. Wesley, Mr. Rolande LeFane, Ms. Clare LeFane, Mr. Rod Raikes, Dr. Dale Hodges, Mr. John Holland, and One Member of the Press. I De! ty Reeve David Caldwell chaired the meeting. Dep ty Reeve David Caldwell opened the meeting by explaining to tho' e present that this Public Meeting was to obtain public com ents with respect to a proposed Amendment, to amend the policy of he Official Plan and Zoning By-Law pursuant to Section 17 and 34 f the Planning Act, 1983. The proposed Official Plan Amendment wil provide policies which would address development and extension or 'nlargement to existing dwellings on private or unassumed roads. I Thelproposed Zoning By-Law Amendment would implement the Official PIa Amendment to provide appropriate regulations regarding dev~lopment on unassumed and private roads. TO~'ate, the Council of the Corporation of the Township of Oro have not I",ma~e a dec~sion on this application, other than,proceeding to a bl~c Meet~ng. Only after comments are rece~ ved from the Pub tic, Township Staff and requested agencies within the app iopriate time period, will Council make a decision on this app ,ication. I' j, N~tice of the Public Meeting was a~d Orillia Packet and Times on - 2 - placed in both the Barrie Examiner August 14, 1990. T e Deputy Reeve then asked the Clerk if there had been any c rrespondence received on this matter. The Clerk responded by i dicating that one piece of correspondence had been received and p oceeded to read the correspondence from Mr. Jeffrey R. Ball, R.R. # , Coldwater, Ontario, with regards to the Official Plan and Z,ning By-Law Amendments policies on Private and Unassumed roads. D ar Mr. Small: I S~bject: Official Plan and Zoning By-Law Amendments P~ease be advised that I have examined a draft of Amendment No. 4l, a '!d the un::.:::::o::::::::e p:::a:::a::::n::ya::d Aa.ocia te, and n te that our properties (West Half Lot 4, Concession 10, Oro T wnship) existinq easement and right of way access are not listed i , any table or shown on any map. p~þase ensure that the easement and right of way access we have adiross the West Half Lot 3, Concession 10, Oro Township, are iJ!r' luded in your existing inventory of "Individual Rights of Way" i the Township of Oro. Y lrs sincerely, ti JJffrey R. Ball R.j . #4 C~;dwater, Ontario, LOK lEO Th, Deputy Reeve then stated that those persons present would be at orded the opportunity of asking questions with respect to the pr, posed Official Plan Amendment. i De uty Reeve David Caldwell then asked the Township'S Planning Co sultant, Mr. Ron Watkin, to explain the purpose and effect of th proposed Official Plan and Zoning By-Law Amendment. Ro Watkin: This proposed amendment follows an issue that has caused some concern to the Township and too many of the Township residents for sometime. It stems primarily from the Ontario Government, Provincial Ministry of Municipal Affairs, and their viewpoint is that we should not allow for any development whatsoever on a private road. The Township originally addressed some of these issues in a previous document that they had submitted to the Ontario Government and from this document there was certainly some questions raised by the Ministry. There is certainly some issues that in terms of the different types of roads that exist in the Township, need to be addressed in more detail. Subsequent to that, additional work had been done in setting out the different types of roads. - 3 - Watkin: The proposed policy breaks the Township down roadwise, relative to this amendment and to a number of different road types. These road types refer to those unassumed roads which will be on Plans of Subdivision with a correct Subdivision Agreement. In other words an area where there is a subdivision in place that has been approved by the Township and approved by the Ministry, the subdivision agreement has been signed but it hasn't quite been completed. The unopened or unbuilt road allowances are the roads that are not opened, where a concession road does not go all the way through or where a road allowance is set up between two lots but it is not opened. The third one is the unopened road allowance for seasonal use. In the northern part of the Township we have a few of these which are only open in the summer, they are not snow ploughed in the winter time and therefore there is no access through them in the winter time. The fourth is an unassumed road on a Plan of Subdivision that has been partially built but has not been brought up to the standards of the Township. There are some older Plans of Subdivision where the Subdivision Agreement may have lapsed or for some reason the road was not completed as it should have been back at the time the developer was undertaking the work required to bring the subdivision to its final conclusion. There are also unassumed roads within Deemed Plans of Subdivision. There are a number of Deemed Plans of Subdivision along the shoreline and we have the policy relating to those. The individual Rights-of-Way where someone has a right-of-way over another persons property to gain access to his property. What basically we are doing without going into a lot of detail is the policy says that we are proposing to make or create new lots. We are proposing to allow, if you have a vacant lot on one of these rights-of-way, the private roads, those types of roads we have made mention of, providing you meet the policies that I will refer to in a minute, you would be able to erect a residence on that land. It also allows at the present time if you live on a private road and you have a dwelling on that road, technically you would not be allowed to put an addition on. The policy that we are proposing, will allow you to put that addition on. Watkin: Kotsopou1os: Caldwell: Tecklenburg: Watkin: Reeve Caldwell: - 4 - In order to allow you to do these things, you have to enter into an agreement with this municipality to do so. The agreement is an acknowledgement that would be then registered on title. (Read acknowledgement policy) We are proposing to zone those areas that we feel are in a situation that they would occur on and those zones will be placed in a holding zone so you do not have to go through the rezoning process. Ron, I would just like to submit a letter for you to read. I would just like to remind everyone that you do have a couple of weeks to submit a letter into the Township, expressing any concerns, comments or suggestions that you have regarding this proposed Official Plan Amendment of Zoning By-Law change. I would invite everybody to check the maps that we have, showing some of these roads and identifying any that you may know of that we might not be aware of yet, private roads, easements and that sort of thing. I was just wondering if any of the previous applications that are in that situation will be looked at now or do you have to reapply again. Yes, we have specifically looked after your request. I briefly went through your table of areas and going through I didn't notice anything regarding my specific area, being Concession 4, Part of Lot l8. There is lots 25 and 26 but that is as far as it goes. Is this correct? You took us out of Plan 712, our property was in one of the Deemed Plans of Subdivision. Firstly, you are still in Plan 712, we did not take you out of it, but your Plan was Deemed. It was Deemed once and then redeemed again. We have you on this list in pink, so you are in there, we know where you are. Two things I would like to say, because you are in a Deemed Plan of Subdivision, t:he subdivision has to be upgraded to meet municipal standards, in other words, if you are on a lot that is too small, or the roads are not appropriate, then you are not going to get new development until the subdivision is brought up to a standard acceptable to Council. Ron, would you please explain the term Deemed Plan of Subdivision. Watkin: Tecklenburg: Reeve Caldwell: Tecklenburg: - 5 - A Deemed Plan of Subdivision has to be at least eight years old and the deeming process is one whereby a municipality has the ability to go into an old Plan of Subdivision, if it doesn't meet today's standards and deem them not to be a Plan of Subdivision for purposes of the Planning Act only. You still own lot such and such on the plan, but for the purposes of the Planning Act and for the purpose of issuing Building Permits, you are not entitled to do so. If you had ten lots and lots one to five are owned by one person, Lot 6 is owned by another person, and Lots 7 to 10 are owned by a third person, when you deem that Plan of Subdivision, not to be a Plan of Subdivision for the purposes of the Planning Act, you only have three lots left. Lots 1-5 becomes one lot, Lot 6, because it is individually owned is still one lot and Lots 7-l0 is another Lot. That person still owns five lots under Plan 7l2, but for the purposes of what we are looking at it is only one lot. The only way that you can change the deeming, is to upgrade the road, take Lots 1 to 5 and make three lots out of it or whatever is required to meet the standards of today, Health Unit, etc. It is a method established to allow the municipality to upgrade areas where there are certain strong deficiencies to allow every lot to be built on in the way they were originally proposed. Let me get this straight. I own one particular lot, and another fellow owns all of the other lots, now I can not buy the other lot off that other fellow now, can I? Can I get him to sell me one lot and then have X number of lots? Is it going to be possible for me to build a house if this plan goes through? The whole Plan of Subdivision has to be upgraded to a certain level that is acceptable to the Township and it is going to involve some negotiating. If there is just two of you involved the best thing is for the two of you to sit down and bring forward a joint proposal. If that requires you purchasing some land from that other individual, which possibly will be the case because I think the reason for the deeming was they were very small lots. The other question is that you have the garbage trucks that go down our road, without any problem, they turn around without any problem; so it can't be that narrow. So what is the problem? i Ii II R!lm Watkin: II II II ]1 -I... Drury. II II II II + Hi..i... RO~ 'atk'., il II Gt Robin'o", .O~ ..tkin. II Ga~l Robinson: II RO~ Watkin: II Ga~l Robinson: RO~ Watkin: II Ii II Allþelson: I I ¡ - 6 - I don't mean to shut you off, but we are getting off topic. I think what you have to do is make an appointment with council and go over what will be required to bring that subdivision to the point acceptable to Council. That has to be done. Once that deeming By-Law can be lifted and maybe your roads are appropriate, but there could be other problems, the soil might not be capable of handling the septic effluent from a fifty foot lot, etc. I would just like to extend what Ron Watkin has pointed out. The main reason we did deem some of the Plans of Subdivision in the Township was strictly because of the environment. As you all well know, in Innisfil Township a few years ago, there was hundreds and hundreds of these forty, fifty, sixty, foot lots were built with septic tanks and they had to go to a sewage treatment system which cost them over thirty million dollars. The Township of Oro is trying to protect our assets the best we can and we certainly can not afford to go into the thirty or forty million dollar sewage treatment system to handle a few extra lots along the lake. I live on Grandview Road. If I understood Ron correctly he said there would be a means whereby he would point out exactly how this would apply to our own specific lots. What I am basically referring to is if specific individuals have specific concerns on specific lots, then I will sit down with you and go through the document and show you where it is and what effect it will have. (Asked Ron Watkin to clarify the second and third item on the acknowledgement agreement). "The Owner acknowledges and agrees that the Township is not required to maintain or snow plough the said road or street". The one above that, is difference between the two? there any "The Owner acknowledges and agrees that the lot or lots in question does not front on an approved public road or street". What does that mean? You are just recognizing that you are not on a public street you are on an unassumed road or a private road or whatever. Do you have a list of these Roads in question? R~i Watkin: " ~f rri~l., Ii ..~ ..tkin, II II Mril Trimble: II Ii II De~uty 'I Reeve Caldwell: Mr. Trimble: Ron Drury: - 7 - We did set up a listing of the various roads. The list is here and as I said we are not proposing that it is a complete list, we can add to it or subtract. I noticed you havn't mentioned about you want to sell some of the roadways that have never been used. For example, I have one hundred acres and I have a roadway across my property that has not been used for the past one hundred years and you want to sell that strip of land in the hundred acres that I have. We are not selling anything tonight. This is a public meeting relative to those types of roads to establish a policy which will allow some people relief to be able to build on a lot or to be able to put an addition onto a dwelling, providing he meets the policies that we are proposing here tonight. This has nothing to do with the sale of land. I am asking Council, are you aware of any properties that have old road allowances that people have never used and that have never been opened but are assigned as roads and the farmer has been using them for the past fifty years? The purpose of this was not to identify pieces of road that we might be looking to sell. The purpose was to provide some benefit to those people who own properties and find themselves in a situation where they can't build because they do not meet the current cr iter ia. What we are trying to do is to find a way to resolve some of these problems and at the same time protect the environment. There are many cases in the Township, because of the steep hills, the original road allowance was not followed and there was what is known as a deviation road through private property that got to the next road. Those old road allowances are still there and are still owned and someday the Township may dispose of them. That is not on our priority list at this point and if they were sold, they would have to be sold firstly to the adjacent property owners. What do you mean by bring a road to a standard? I can't answer that question, we would look at each one individually. Those are things that cannot be answered until an actual application comes through to upgrade one of these roads and Council would have to look at it, as well as the Township Engineers and then there can be a decision made. We are here tonight to deal with people who own land in the Township, not speculators. I, , " II " ,I D1putY Reeve Caldwell: II I, C~~I ncillor Crawford: I just wanted to make one quick comment 'I to backup what I said a while ago about I severances. On these unassumed roads II there are some small lots and this is one II of the reasons why I think we should look 'II, at a severance policy in the Natural Area , so that some of these small lots can be i added to. Right now there is no way you II can do that. Th~1 Deputy Reeve after enquiring and ascertaining that there were nol further questions from those present, thanked those in at, endance for their participation and advised that Council would COiSider all matters ,before reaching a decision. He then advised th ,se present that if they wished to be notified of the passing of th proposed by-law, they should leave their name and address with th" Clerk. - 8 - You should ask your lawyer specifically when you are purchasing the property. Do I tread on ¡U1 existing municipal road or is it a private or unassumed road or whatever? Those are things you need to know before you make your purchase. MO ION NO.1 Mo~ed by Johnson, seconded by Crawford Be~¡'t resolved that the Special Public Meeting an Unassumed Roads Official Plan Amendment) 8: , p.m. Ii I: of Council (Private now be adjourned @ Carried. / ~?:v~ Clerk Robert W. Small